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Thread: ? yeah, umm, no, thats incorrect

  1. #11

    Default Re: ? yeah, umm, no, thats incorrect

    ok, im sorry if i acted mean or anything, its just, i really wish there was one, because it would be nice not to have to wait for a pc release of gta v to play it, but i still think that you guys do underestimate the power of a pc somewhat, not even close to as much as before, but pc shouldnt have as much of a problem as you guys are saying it will

  2. #12
    Controller Man ulaoulao's Avatar
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    Default Re: ? yeah, umm, no, thats incorrect

    Hey man its cool. I can understand the desire, hell you should see my friggen set up. Most people dont know they are playing a computer.

    you guys do underestimate the power of a pc somewhat
    Its not the "power" that is the issue, its the core technology. If you want to get in to it, in detail, I'd be happy to help you understand it. Think of it this way, a CPU has op codes ( say 1200 ), now an emulator has to figure out what each one means and re-engineer it. Then each technology in that chip has to be done and there can be like 100 core techs. So you need to decode 100 of each and of them, their op codes. Whereas the console is pre-programmed to understand them. AND THAT IS JUST THE CPU. Now on to the sound and GPU. My point is there is a lot more to emulating then you think.

    I gather you are a game dev, or familiar with game engines? ( just a guess ). then you know how DX works. Its a ton of functions that preform something. Well if you drill down to the CHIP abstraction of the video card you will find these are op codes that tell the hardware what to do. So If I wanted to make a GL wrapper, I would need to have the wrapper translate each function in to GL. Now how many functions is that? Then after all of that I need to preform the screen drawing like I would on the DX chip. This is sort of the same concept but on a much smaller scale.
    Last edited by ulaoulao; September 20th, 2013 at 23:44.
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  3. #13

    Default Re: ? yeah, umm, no, thats incorrect

    Heck, that was the "largest" thread I had stump upon.

    If one can make X360 or PS3 games playable on PC, we should see (fully working) Xbox emulator come out by now.


  4. #14
    Controller Man ulaoulao's Avatar
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    Default Re: ? yeah, umm, no, thats incorrect

    Oh yeah totally forgot this. Bsnes or higan. This is a snes emulator, the first emulator that I know of that claims 100% accuracy with no bugs. Thus, far no one has proved this wrong. Now lets take a looky here?

    higan requires A Core 2 Duo processor or higher
    snes CPU 16-bit 65c816 Ricoh 5A22 3.58 MHz

    hmmm...

    Ricoh 5A22 - from wiki -
    The CPU as a whole employs a variable-speed system bus, with bus access times determined by the memory location accessed. The bus runs at 3.58 MHz for non-access cycles and when accessing Bus B and most internal registers, and either 2.68 or 3.58 MHz when accessing Bus A. It runs at 1.79 MHz only when accessing the controller port serial-access registers.[1] It works at approximately 1.5 MIPS and has a theoretical peak of 1.79 million 16-bit adds per second.

    Core 2 Duo T5600
    Dhrystone: 22305 MIPS (+34.8%)
    Whetstone: 5547/8171 FPU/iSSE2 MFLOPS (+8.9%/+24.0%)

    ah, just ran in to this by a coincident. I believe this was written by byuu's the author of bnes. Employ a grammar school concept called comprehension and you will get it.
    http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/0...es-emulator/1/

    Props to some of the quote I liked in that article.

    These days, the most dominant emulators are Nestopia and Nintendulator, requiring 800MHz and 1.6GHz, respectively, to attain full speed. The need for speed isn't because the emulators aren't well optimized: it's because they are a far more faithful recreation of the original NES hardware in software.
    We wouldn't round pi down to 3 simply because irrational numbers are inconvenient, right?
    The most common misconception in gauging an emulator's performance is that you can't simply look at the clock rate of the primary processor.
    He obviously meant can't but in his article he says can.

    now two quotes on "a perfect digital form of the exact original hardware design"
    To run Pong at about 5-10fps, DICE requires a 3GHz processor. Yes, you read that right: no computer processor at this time that can run Pong at the circuit level at full speed. It's not that DICE is a slow program; indeed, it is very well optimized. It's that there is enormous overhead to simulating every last transistor propagation delay.
    As much as I would like every emulator to support every last transistor propagation delay, in truth this simply isn't possible. It becomes fair to say that we will likely never see hardware capable of emulating an N64 at this level at playable framerates within our lifetimes.
    For the readers that dont get it, This article is written in layman's terms but many of us are just too lazy so, here is the over all. The emulation you see today is done by hacks and tricks to appear as though its emulating. In reality its not, not even close. Though it serves its purpose, to allow "you" to play games. simulating every last transistor propagation delay will never be possible in our life time. So authors do tricks like HLE. Now Bsnes is the only emulator to use one form of a trick and the rest pure accurate emulation. As much as he would like to write a transistor to transistor emulator its not possible. So he skips up to the chip level and start emulating from there.
    Last edited by ulaoulao; October 1st, 2013 at 18:02.
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