Should you update the graphics Adapter on a 4 year old computer??

Crazy!

Road Runner!
Hiya people, I've been a member for a while but I haven't posted for AGES, I doubt you'll remember when I first showed up going on about graphics Cards & Stuff...! :$ Anyway, I haven't really had time to decide and actually buy one STILL, I just can't decide and another that's holding me back is the above question. I've read in places that it's not advisable to upgrade graphics adapters etc on computers that are about 3+ years old. My computer is about 4 years old and I haven't upgraded it at all since I got it, the computers been used alot since we've purchased it.

I would like to upgrade because it will fulfill my gaming experiences alot, in terms of emulating games and when it comes to playing more demanding PC games with more RAM requirements etc.

Here are my basic computer Specs:

Windows XP {Home}

Graphics Adapter: Onboard S3 Pro Savage DDR

CPU: Intel Celeron/Pentium 4 (2.0 GHz)


If you need more info tell me. :x
 
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Psycho_Symantic

New member
as long as you get a card that your motherboard supports, youll be fine.
also make sure you have enough ram to support the card as well
 

Crazy!

Road Runner!
Oh but how on earth would I find out if my motherboard supports it, and about RAM, I thought the graphics card came with built in memory (RAM) to enhance graphics. So MY system has to have enough RAM as it stands now, how would I find that out?? **Thick...doooing!*

Thanks! :)

Edit: My mother Board name is Epox EP-P4MKI-S

Motherboard chipset: VIA VT8751A Apollo P4M266A

Memory Slots {RAM} - DRAM Slot #1 256 MB (PC2700 DDR SDRAM)

I got this info from EVERSEST Pro, I think it's all right.
 
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Jale

Active member
By the look of your integrated graphics, your motherboard is a Biostar. All you need to know if your motherboard has an AGP port. It doesn't matter if your AGP port is 4X or 8X, either way you can still plug any 8X video card into a 4X slot with the difference that its bandwidth will be reduced to 4X, but I don't think the difference is noticeable. I'm pretty sure your AGP port runs at 4X, because you said it's 4 years old.

In other words, you can plug any AGP card in your 4 years old computer, from the oldie Radeon 7000 to the almighty Radeon X1950 (ATI Cards). Also, nVidia will release an AGP version of its famous DirectX 10 card GeForce 8800.
 

Crazy!

Road Runner!
Thanks! You're a wicked help! I feel at ease now! Simple.

I think I'll get the Sapphire RADEON 9600XT. It's very affordable and seems to be a very good card!
 
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Psycho_Symantic

New member
ya i guess i should of been a bit more clear about what i meant by motherboard supporting the card.

as for ram all video cards have a minimum that they will work with, just like any other hardware.
and it looks like the card you chose requires 128mb of ram. honestly id upgrade the ram to at least 512mb.

your system is already running at 50% the addition of that video card will only cause it to have display problems (it happened to me with my radeon 9800 pro)
 

Jale

Active member
as for ram all video cards have a minimum that they will work with, just like any other hardware.
and it looks like the card you chose requires 128mb of ram. honestly id upgrade the ram to at least 512mb.
That's not true, unless it has the TurboCache technology developed by nVidia to boost a 256 MB card to 512 MB, which requires at least 1 GB of system RAM. But that's not the case. Every video card have their own RAM, for example, my old Radeon 9200 being 128 MB of video RAM requires at least 64 MB of system RAM.

Anyway, it's always a good idea to read the system requirements of the video card before buying one. Make sure it meets the following characteristics:

  • Video RAM should be at least 128 MB.
  • Buy either ATI (Radeon) or nVidia (GeForce) chipsets since they're the most dominant in market. It doesn't matter if the card has been manufactured by Sapphire, MSI or whatever, just make sure they're powered by one of those two chipsets.
  • Buy what you need. Don't waste money in a high-end video card if you're not gonna use it after all, but don't buy a low-end either, since you won't get an acceptable performance in modern games.
 

Psycho_Symantic

New member
That's not true, unless it has the TurboCache technology developed by nVidia to boost a 256 MB card to 512 MB, which requires at least 1 GB of system RAM. But that's not the case. Every video card have their own RAM, for example, my old Radeon 9200 being 128 MB of video RAM requires at least 64 MB of system RAM.
im not sure what your refuting here, can you be a bit more clear
 

Jale

Active member
What I mean is that when you have integrated graphics (no video card), RAM is shared and works as video memory. For example, let's say you have 256 MB of RAM installed on your system and you've assigned 32 MB as video memory. With this you'll have 224 MB of system RAM (256 MB of total system RAM - 32 MB of shared RAM = 224 MB of total system RAM).

With video cards that's not the case, since they have their own video memory modules. It doesn't matter if the card has 256 or 512 MB of video memory, you'll have your complete 256 MB of system RAM for other tasks and the video card will operate with its own video memory.

For TurboCache (nVIDIA), read here and for HyperMemory (ATI), read here.
 
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Crazy!

Road Runner!
Hiya, I'm finding this stuff complicated to be honest, I'm understanding butters! i think. I've looked on my Everest software and it says that my System Memory is 224MB and that my Display Adapter Memory is 32MB. So I'm guessing that means the onboards graphics is using 32MB of the original system memory to run, because the original total memory is 256MB.

So when I get a card I have to make sure that it will work in a computer with an original system memory of 256MB {For my computer, that is!?, is that right??}

Because as Butters! said the card comes with it's own memory so if I get a card with 256MB of memory does that mean that my total computer memory will be 512MB (256 x 2)? And I'm right in saying that my onboard graphics is using 32MB of the original system memory to run not memory of it's own? I'm getting it all, I think, I'm not getting whether I have to make sure my system has 128MB, 256MB etc of memory beforehand or not.

...???

EDIT: Look at these cards for example which card would be best to buy do yah think!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SAPPHIRE-ATI-...87QQihZ013QQcategoryZ3762QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem - SAPPHIRE ATI Radeon 9250 256MB AGP 8x

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sapphire-RADE...oryZ3762QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem - Sapphire RADEON 9600XT (256 MB) AGP

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Asus-6600-TD-...oryZ3762QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem - Asus 6600 TD 256MB AGP 8x nVidia GeForce
If there's a slightly more advanced card which is affordable, tell us! :)
 
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Psycho_Symantic

New member
With video cards that's not the case, since they have their own video memory modules. It doesn't matter if the card has 256 or 512 MB of video memory, you'll have your complete 256 MB of system RAM for other tasks and the video card will operate with its own video memory.
im not saying that video cards use the physical memory like onboard video devices, what im saying is they have minimum system requirements that they will work with.
example
the radeon 9250 requires 64mb of ram and a pentium 2 or higher
http://ati.amd.com/products/radeon9200/radeon9200/specs.html
9600xt requires 128mb of ram.
http://ati.amd.com/products/radeon9600/radeon9600pro/specs.html

Hiya, I'm finding this stuff complicated to be honest, I'm understanding butters! i think. I've looked on my Everest software and it says that my System Memory is 224MB and that my Display Adapter Memory is 32MB. So I'm guessing that means the onboards graphics is using 32MB of the original system memory to run, because the original total memory is 256MB.
right on the money
So when I get a card I have to make sure that it will work in a computer with an original system memory of 256MB {For my computer, that is!?, is that right??}
you have to make sure that you have that amount of memory free which you most likely dont considering xp will use everything you have, plus other software running in the background, other devices like your router uses memory as well.
upgrade your system memory first to no less then 512mb then get a card.

cards do have their own memory but again they also have system requirements as well.

also with the cards the cards memory isnt the only thing thats important, the gpu (graphical processesing unit, the cards processor) also plays a huge role in how these cards perform.
so a radeon 9600 with 128mb of Vram (video ram) will actually out perform a radeon 9250 with 256mb of Vram
the higher the clock speed of the proc the faster it can push the data.
if you really want nice performance in an agp card go for the radeon 9800 pro, once you upgrade your ram
 

Crazy!

Road Runner!
Yeah but most cards will work well with the RAM I already have [256] won't they, how would I upgrade my RAM, and is it really nessecary?? I dont want to have to upgrade RAM and Graphics. Anyway thanks for explaining everything I will have to give this some thought...

???
 

Jale

Active member
Crazy said:
Hiya, I'm finding this stuff complicated to be honest, I'm understanding butters! i think. I've looked on my Everest software and it says that my System Memory is 224MB and that my Display Adapter Memory is 32MB. So I'm guessing that means the onboards graphics is using 32MB of the original system memory to run, because the original total memory is 256MB.

So when I get a card I have to make sure that it will work in a computer with an original system memory of 256MB {For my computer, that is!?, is that right??}
256 MB seems to be enough for any card, so you don't have to worry about.

Crazy said:
Because as Butters! said the card comes with it's own memory so if I get a card with 256MB of memory does that mean that my total computer memory will be 512MB (256 x 2)?
Wrong. The video memory of your video card will never act as system RAM. When you plug your video card your system memory won't be 224 MB anymore, it will be your complete 256 MB of RAM, because the 32 MB assigned to your onboard graphics won't need them anymore.

Crazy said:
And I'm right in saying that my onboard graphics is using 32MB of the original system memory to run not memory of it's own? I'm getting it all, I think, I'm not getting whether I have to make sure my system has 128MB, 256MB etc of memory beforehand or not.
You said you have 224 MB of system RAM and 32 MB of shared RAM for video.

224 + 32 = 256 MB.

That means you have 256 MB, but your onboard graphics is taking 32 MB of that memory to work. That's why you have 224 MB instead of 256 MB.

Crazy said:
EDIT: Look at these cards for example which card would be best to buy do yah think!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SAPPHIRE-ATI-...87QQihZ013QQcategoryZ3762QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem - SAPPHIRE ATI Radeon 9250 256MB AGP 8x

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sapphire-RADE...oryZ3762QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem - Sapphire RADEON 9600XT (256 MB) AGP

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Asus-6600-TD-...oryZ3762QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem - Asus 6600 TD 256MB AGP 8x nVidia GeForce
If there's a slightly more advanced card which is affordable, tell us! :)
Stay away from the 9250 one. You can choose between the 9600XT and the 6600TD. I'm not sure about the power of those cards. I'll do some research and let you know.

EDIT: I've never heard of the 6600TD, but according to the description given on eBay, it's very similar to the 9600XT, with the difference that the 9600XT has more memory bandwith (9.6 GHz) than the 6600TD (6.4 GHz).
 
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Crazy!

Road Runner!
Thanks Butters! no offense but you've made so much more sense to me than the other guy! :p Yeah I got that shared memory thing, the onboard graphics is using 32MB of the system RAM to run, but when I get a new Graphics Adapter the RAM stolen from the original sysem RAM will be restored to it's original place {with System RAM.} The graphics card has seperate memory which focuses on enhancing 3D Applications and other media files etc! yeah do some research on the cards I've put up that'll really help! I'm gonna purchase one soon, I think I've done enough faffing about! :D

EDIT: I'm certain most cards will act much better than onboard S3 Pro Savage DDR graphics anyway. I want my graphics card to run N64 & PS1 Games {Emulation} almost perfectly and to play modern PC games atleast at a reasonable/good rate. Alot of N64 Games have graphical glitches i.e

Conkers Bad Fur Day - Is REALLY slow and conkers head is white etc.

Donkey Kong & Super Mario 64..among others - Are REALLY slow in places and sometimes tend to crash my computer because of the tug of memory.

Banjo Kazooie - SLOW in places

Banjo Tooie - Has white graphical glitches and is VERY slow.

Most games have graphical glitches more severe than others but most are reasonably playable.

PS1 Games - Most of them actually work well, I've only got 6 games. There are minor glitches on Tekken 3 & Crash Bandicoot 1 etc.

PC Games - Simpsons Hit & Run - Runs REALLY slowly
Breath of Fire V - Runs a little bit slowly on full res.
Some current Football Manager Games runs a little bit slowly.

Will most of these cards get rid of these problems?
 
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Jale

Active member
The S3 Graphics is an ass integrated chip. In fact, it's the worst onbard graphics chip I've ever seen in my life, even scrolling up or down a window is a pain in the ass.

About those games:

Conkers Bad Fur Day - This game has low framerates even on the real system, but you won't see Conker's head white anymore. You'll still see some graphic glitches such as non-emulated motion blur, but that's a plugin issue, not the video card's.

Donkey Kong & Super Mario 64..among others - They work perfectly, at least Super Mario 64. Donkey Kong 64 has a core glitch when you climb a palm tree it goes off-screen.

Banjo Kazooie - Works perfectly.

Banjo Tooie - Works perfectly, but has core issues (emulation crash).

PS1 Games - Most of them work perfectly. You will experience some graphic issues with Final Fantasy games if you don't choose a good plugin.

PC Games - Simpsons Hit & Run - Never played it, so I don't know.
Breath of Fire V - Never played it, but I think those cards will run fine on high resolutions, even with anti-aliasing enabled.
Football games, it depends. FIFA World Cup Germany 2006 runs a little slow on my X1600, because of the excesive crowd in the background and high detailed models at the same time on screen.
 
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Crazy!

Road Runner!
Thanks, so most emulated games will work perfectly, but the emulators genuinely need more development to perfect other minor glitches? Great and how will most modern PC games fair on of those cards or the most advanced of the bunch?..sorry for the BOMBARDMENT of question! lol :p

Is this your card?? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SAPPHIRE-ATI-...oryZ3762QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Is this card better than all of the others I've stated before because it has higher memory/Clock Speed?

Thanks! :D
 
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Psycho_Symantic

New member
Thanks Butters! no offense but you've made so much more sense to me than the other guy!
ok then understand this.
niether you nor butters is taking into account that other things are using the system memory.
so when you install a new card your only going to max out your system memory.

also if you dont know how to install ram, how in the hell are you going to install a video card.

oh well i wash my hands of this, but i do suggest you do ALOT of homework about video cards before you do any of this
 

Crazy!

Road Runner!
I'm am sorry I didn't want to offend you, as you can tell I'm a bit duh! when it comes to this! lol I think I'm understadning you, my system memory at present is 256MB so are you saying I can't buy a graphics card which has more than 256MB on it? And about installing a new card I've heard it's simple enough, I can figure out how to plug it into the AGP slot and all cards come with instruction manuals and the installaton CD. I'll be fine when it comes to installing the card and drivers, but I just wanted to figure this out first...
 

Jale

Active member
ok then understand this.
niether you nor butters is taking into account that other things are using the system memory.
so when you install a new card your only going to max out your system memory.

also if you dont know how to install ram, how in the hell are you going to install a video card.

oh well i wash my hands of this, but i do suggest you do ALOT of homework about video cards before you do any of this
That's right. You need to study a bit about the components of your motherboard before installing anything on it.
 

Psycho_Symantic

New member
I'm am sorry I didn't want to offend you, as you can tell I'm a bit duh! when it comes to this! lol I think I'm understadning you, my system memory at present is 256MB so are you saying I can't buy a graphics card which has more than 256MB on it? And about installing a new card I've heard it's simple enough, I can figure out how to plug it into the AGP slot and all cards come with instruction manuals and the installaton CD. I'll be fine when it comes to installing the card and drivers, but I just wanted to figure this out first...
no im saying that these cards have system requirements that must be met.
your system barely meets them, so your going to run into problems.

upgrade your ram first, that should be a priority.
next check the wattage on your power supply.
open your case look at the sticker on the power supply itll tell you somewhere on there how many watts it is.
if its 350 or lower youll have to upgrade that as well
 
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