"Stupid" new members and the attitude towards them

Status
Not open for further replies.

Lefteris_D

Administrator
Staff member
A few hours ago the subject of how we should handle the "stupid" new members as some people call them came up.

The goal of this thread is to hear everyone's suggestions on the matter of how we should handle this situation. So let's see what you think people, you wanted a discussion on the matter? You got it.


Note: Please make this a thread to remember! Use valid and well structured arguments. Avoid any kinds of attacks and bad language or we will have to moderate those posts as always.
 

TchuBacha

I am the Stig
By stupid new members do you mean new members that ask questions that have already been answered in other threads?
 

-=VampyR=-

Immortal
TchuBacha said:
By stupid new members do you mean new members that ask questions that have already been answered in other threads?

Spoiler »
Spoiler »
No ! It means hagbard,myself and few others all thrown in dirt by some guy named Neco who thinks he deserves more out of his membership here.


Avoid any kinds of attacks and bad language or we will have to moderate those posts as always.
I will avoid this by not saying anything I really want to say.

If this thing goes into stupid arguments that are not in my favour (so to speak) I WILL leave this place,although I am ashamed to do so because I respect Lefteris_D,a guy who once again showed his good judgement by making this thread.

All the good people that are on this site can be found on other forums too.

Neco just made it into my "Ignore List"...only two people had this pleasure:
jiskmeister
pissinginthewind


Lefteris_D knows who they are,or who he was.
 
Last edited:

Jale

Active member
I'm not into flame wars, I don't put people into my ignore list, but in situations like this I ignore people by not replying to them.
 

-=VampyR=-

Immortal
Butters said:
I'm not into flame wars, I don't put people into my ignore list, but in situations like this I ignore people by not replying to them.

You're cool,that's why I like you.
But I'm quite the opposite.
When someone acts like an ass,I can't just stand there and take it.

Lefteris_D said:
The goal of this thread is to hear everyone's suggestions on the matter of how we should handle this situation.

Make a poll on your options:

Who gets banned ?

1.hagbard & -=VampyR=- (and prolly others)
2.Neco & xxxxxxxxxxxx

It's easy Lefteris_D,you're the admin.
The forum must go the way YOU and GHDpro like it.
Get rid of the ones you consider garbage,let's face reality here and not hide behind words.I HATE THAT.
Maybe except meeting hagbard,alcoatjez,montpics and Butters here,I've just wasted my time.
 

Lefteris_D

Administrator
Staff member
No unfair bans will be given, that I promice. Do I seem like an unfair person -=VampyR=-?

And besides that you don't look like a stupid person to me. We should get more people LIKE you here.

-=VampyR=- said:
The forum must go the way YOU and GHDpro like it.
I know GHDpro well enough to say that we are both in favor of the "respect to others and get rid of troublemakers" approach. This has been his way of doing things and it has been mine for a looooong time.
 

hagbard

New member
I think respect should the basis of every forum, everything else is useless fight, flame wars, and chaos. The primary mods task should be to keep the forums a nice, friendly place, and guide the new members if necessary. Respect never was a privilege, is a right. We are all humans, and we should never forget it.
 
Last edited:

-=VampyR=-

Immortal
hagbard said:
We are all humans, and we should never forget it.
Speak for yourself. :D /me is a genuine vampire.

Back to reality:

I consider this matter closed NOW (at least for me).
It got too much attention which is not needed in this case.
Neco is on my ignore list and so shall be any asswife that tries to prove he's worth anything.
 
Last edited:

Zach

New member
Warning: 6 page response.
If you can't be bothered to read it, don't bother replying TO it. You will have only proven my point for me.

===================
I have a little trouble even thinking about trying to participate in a thread where you asked there be no harshness/personal attacks and otherwise "bad language" when everything I've read so far has been allowed to progress that way.

The manner in which I delivered my message is in no way something I will ever apologize for, because the points I made were valid and are on display even as we discuss the issue.

I don't have a problem with people who can't speak English and don't try to hide it. Although Butters didn't do much writing for OSG, I would like to think we ended our relationship there on good terms. I came to a point in OSG where I was working with several writers (Rocky has done a few reviews) who did not speak English natively.

I like Butters and Rocky (where are you bro?), and they are good people. I would like to think they are both still on friendly terms with me. I had no trouble working with them, and even though I had to take my time to personally rewrite their work so it could be understood by an English reading audience, they were able to clearly communicate what they were talking about in what little English they knew and understood. Their original works are a sharp contrast to most of their posts here, as I am guessing they were writing on the fly and didn't have time to sit down and "think" about how they wanted to say something, like they have the luxury of doing with forum posts.

In the end I let them both go because I simply didn't have the personal time needed to turn-around their submissions. Not because I thought they were stupid, or bad people. I can't recall ever personally going out of my way to put them down, and I actually encouraged them to try and help them become better writers.

The difference between working with them, and trying to talk to certain people on this forum is, I could understand them. You can be Albert Einstein himself, the smartest person in the world and you might be the only person around who had the technical expertise to rescue a baby from a well. But no one cares, if they cannot understand you. Period. Talking to people you cannot understand is frustrating, and unproductive.

The only people feeling resentment here are those who are just unwilling to accept the fact they are disadvantaged. I am far from perfect, and I will be the first to tell anyone so. That being said, there is no reason why I can't try to improve a place I used to love.

I am sick of having to read through posts that don't make sense. They have no proper sentence structure and thus are 50% harder to read than usual. What’s more, a good deal of these posts often come from a member of the moderating staff. That is not a good image to be presenting to the outside world, the world of people you specifically want to attract (intelligent, knowledgeable emulator users).

I am sick of reading posts that have nothing to do with the topic. This happens a lot especially when people are presented with counter points of view. It's like the English speaking Mexican in a lot of movies / TV shows when the cops roll up, they suddenly don't speak English or say something nonsensical that is irrelevant to the topic.

Likewise, I am sick of seeing lots of posts where someone else gave a resolution to the problem, and their answer is quoted and a totally unwarranted "I agree" or equivalent phrase is posted. These posts serve NO purpose. If anyone thinks otherwise, I'd love to hear what you possibly think can justify these types of posts.

And almost certainly I do not like trying to read posts I just can't understand. No proper sentence or grammar structure on top of that. Using wrong words or just seemingly throwing words together.

The overwhelmingly stupid (yes stupid) defense to this has so far been

A - Insisting there is NOT a problem, instead focusing the attention on the fact that I brought the issues up, and the way in which I did so. This is so shallow it can be seen right through, and anyone doing their homework with a forum search / history can clearly see examples of all the practices I've taken note of.

B - Using the fact you don't speak English as a protective blanket all cop-out. This kind of falls in line with example A. There is nothing wrong with being from another country and speaking another language. But simply claiming that not everyone speaks English and that this somehow gives you special status is a farce. Why?
Many countries teach English as a second language
In a lot of international organizations, English is a required second language. Airline pilots for instance are required to know and understand Basic English commands.
You are on a forum that historically has been written in English, on a site historically English, and in the past, boasting many more members from English speaking nations.

Obviously, those of you who are here have already made an effort to know some English - That doesn't relieve you of the chance to make your English better, so that others may understand you more clearly, and so that you make fewer and fewer posts that aren't even comprehendible.

No matter whom you interact with in the world, in whatever language you speak, if people CANNOT understand you, they will not think anything of your opinion, they won't take you seriously, and they won’t have much respect for you. I don't run around forums where I don't understand the language - why? Because I have no business there, I would only cause trouble and confusion.

The other half of the problem here is, even when people who speak English natively post, they are posting unintelligible garbage half the time. They don't spell properly, use idiotic abbreviations and number for letter, or letter for letter substitutions. They write in one big sentence, no commas, and no periods, no anything..

Most importantly. Major problems keep repeating themselves here because no one pro-actively cares or tries to improve things. You don't have people following and setting examples. All you have is a group opinion of "everyone else posts like crap, so I can get away with it too", and a group that constantly reinforces that opinion among each other.

So what happens when someone snaps and goes to town on the forum? They are brushed aside and everyone thinks nothing of it. Because no one wants to put forth the effort, everyone is comfortable with where they are. There are no community role models or rules in place to promote and enforce good grammar and intelligent posting. No one wants to run the risk of alienating themselves from others, their friends, by even trying to enforce these types of rules.

And you know why it would be a waste to bring people in to try and change that at this point? Because everyone would get sick of it. Everyone being reprimanded would start hating the mod(erators) enforcing the rules, and act like he/she is a problem and over-aggressive, or whatever the situation may present as a likely argument Onecalledgod told me the other day how eventually it just became too much to keep up with when he started moderating, and eventually only just had to deal with what seemed to be the most serious infractions (rom links / requests, language etc).

One of the reasons the forum is in such a decrepit state is because of the random nature that appears to go into moderating. Some things slip by while others are dealt with. I mean what about that no bumping old threads rule? What if someone had to contribute some good information on the subject? A new post in most other forums is waste of bandwidth and time when a forum search could reveal an earlier topic to answer already. And as I noted before you even have some staff members who really post what accounts to little more than garbage nonsense, quoting solutions just to say "I agree", and a lot of the other junk around here that is not present on normal forums.

The root cause of the problem has always been the language, spelling & grammar, and other various points that I have brought up. You can't fix the problem unless you find a solution to these things. And you WON'T find a solution when you have a forum of people who are either unwilling to change, or unmotivated. All that happens here is someone points out a problem, and everyone jumps on them to turn the situation around and cause people to forget all mention of the original, often valid points brought up by the person posting initially.

Let's look at this thread. Well structured opinions, don't attack anyone, right?. I've already been mentioned / "attacked" several times. It has already been expressed that those who share my opinion are, "asswifes" - whatever those are.. It should be noted that Vampyr in particular doesn't really care for me - I really could not care.. But why don't you look at his posting habits as of this moment to see what his real problem is.

If this thing goes into stupid arguments that are not in my favor (so to speak) I WILL leave this place

So he already has a predisposed issue with things not turning out in his favor. In the past roughly 24 hours, I have posted in several threads with him & other people. In all those threads I have made statements challenging information or opinions; and in pretty much all those instances I presented well structured, thought out remarks - only to solicit progressively distracting replies that attempted to overlook my claims or shift the topic into another direction, all in an attempt so "save face", or look good in front of others.

I don't swoop down on threads and post derogatory comments just to insult people. I might be a blunt & to the point person, but I don't sit there and post erroneous BS, make wild claims, and then try to back my way out of it. When confronted with opposite opinions I challenge those facts and the basis for them. People might not like my initial attitude when replying to something, but I do far less to provoke people than I do to answer with hard info.

Also in those threads, replies I make to posts that, if anyone were actually reading the thread in progression from one post to the next - anyone reading would clearly see who my replies were to and what they were about. Instead, I get no less than a staff member trying to put a guilt trip on me, because a reply not even meant for them, apparently seemed to upset them personally. On top of all this I still have to deal with people who can’t even detect or comprehend the meanings of sarcasm, or satire, or dark humor.

Just looking at this post, it can clearly be seen someone has an unhealthy obsession with getting the last word in on our arguments, and telling the whole world in any way he can, how bad a person I am. That isn’t healthy to say the least.. But more to the point. This thread was supposed to be moderated if necessary, but I was under attack well before I even had time to see the thread or formulate this reply.

Something else that needs to be pointed out. I never named anyone in my original thread if I recall correctly. It may be sad coincidence that anyone who knew what I was talking about (and thus validated all my claims) was able to attach certain generalizations with other forum members, but that is not my problem. I really am disappointed in Vampyr though (never mind that it is spelled Vampire). He looked as if he really could have contributed to a thread of this nature, but I guess he let's his mind be governed by his passions rather than reasoning.. The only thing I've ever done to him is challenge technicalities in his opinions or posts.. What a sad thing to get mad about.

Finally.. I think the forum should be run the way you want it Lefty. There is no question about who keeps the site and forum operational, however GHD Pro has repeatedly expressed, that he more or less couldn't care what happens here, so I'm not really sure what would motivate him to participate in the problem here. But that is also what it boils down to. All anyone looking at the forum is going to see is that everyone is mad at me, because I upset their vision of the forum, and clearly pointed out how this place is anything but a utopia of emulation information. And to be honest, as I mentioned before, saying that my original thread was a noble idea and then proceeding to "close this piece of crap" doesn't tell me anything about what you are trying to accomplish here. All it does is make me take you less seriously.

Everyone seems to think a list of "rules" as it is, is not going to work. That it will be so long, that no one wants to read it, how my initial post itself was long enough as it was, blah blah blah.. That doesn't sound like the attitude of people who would even want to better their forum, and in the process themselves. Once again, you only need analyze the responses and opinions of others to see just what the real attitude is around here.

It seems like some editing has already gone on here, but I'll just loosely quote something that was said before.
"Neco wants the forum to be run the way he wants"
was the general idea of what was said. It was also said I "hide behind words" or whatever the hell that is supposed to mean. That’s crap. I'm not hiding by words when I express my displeasure in something, and everyone else decides they don't like what was said. It's the people who don't like what's said, and that have had their firm footing pulled out from under them that are having the problem. If someone has the inability to read this whole post, it’s not my problem. The rest of the Internet works like that too, any intelligent debate held on a serious topic in most any normal forum, is going to have long posts like mine; detailing the opinions and perceived problems as witnessed by that particular poster. I’m being chastised for calling people stupid, but at the same time those same people are ridiculing me for using intelligent, thought-out posts that explain my grievance in great detail ? I smell hypocrites.

If you go look at other major forums on the Internet, you will see that "the way Neco wants" is the way a LOT of forums govern themselves. The whole idea that I am calling people stupid and demanding better posting conditions is not me just trying to hate on people. It's a real problem stemming from a real issue. Posting conditions are horrible when you can't understand others half the time. When some rules are seemingly enforced at random, while other infractions are snapped on if the right person jumps on a post and "whines" to the right person. The bottom line throughout this whole ordeal is that I made a point about some serious issues that have been festering here for a long time; everyone else just doesn't want to admit them, and thinks I am now a threat to their own stability, and other people just don't want to get involved so they sit there and say nothing, whether they disagree or not.

There is no fast cure for this Lefty. It's not a matter of writing the shortest possible posting guidelines and hoping people don't get distracted before they finish reading them. It's about enforcement, enforcement, enforcement.

You can't do that if you don't stand up and take a leadership role. You're a nice guy Lefty, and people have taken advantage of that. You don't like to upset the crowd, you want to be on good terms with everyone. That's not a bad quality to have, but it can also burn you too. You have allowed this forum to become what it is because you prefer not displeasing the masses, versus displeasing one person it would be easier to write off and let walk away/ban/ whatever.. This same situation unfolded when Waz finally gave up and left.

He was one of your most critical members, but he was also one of your more down to earth. I can recall from memory that just as much as he could criticize you on something, he could talk to you civilly about other things, and show interest in those things even. But you decided it was easier to just let Waz go, and have him upset with you, as opposed to cracking down on everyone else and have them ALL mad at you. I remember when you tried to crack down before on some rule changes, etc.. And then you folded and went back on it to make everyone happy again. That and the forum resets drove off a lot of good people in the end.

So now you are faced with that situation again.. Let me wander off into the sunset, while giving everyone else the impression you agree with their points of view as they see it. Or sit here and make half-assed threads to "appease" my general sense that some things need to be changed, all the while spouting some "keep it civil and respect everyone" drivel that won't cast you yourself in a negative light or leading anyone else to believe that you actually agree some of them do have problems with posting gibberish that doesn't make sense, and various other things I originally noted in my first post.

This isn't about running the forum the way I want to run it. I don't have this problem on other forums because (gasp), they have people on hand to enforce their particular rules, and they don't constantly backpedal and change things. This isn't about respecting others, or putting them down. I respect everyone here enough to tell them when they are being dumb and give them the chance to change. Smart people can act dumb, just as much as dumb people are. Because you act dumb doesn't mean you ARE dumb. What's really dumb is acting like nothing is wrong, and acting like someone is calling you stupid because they were just bored; it couldn't possibly be because they have a legitimate claim could it?

Life is not fair. Some of us are luckier than others, some of us are poorer than others, some people are better off than others. You want to talk about the real world? This forum is IN the real world, and in the real world people are not going to be nicer and sugar coat your problems for you.

You are not going to attract a better quality of members because you have set the bar so low, they all stay clear. Only those of us hold over from a few years ago are all that's left, and once we're gone. Then I don't even want to think what kind of a mess this place will further plunge into. I've got my own shortcomings. But they are far outweighed by all the problems rampant here; and the fact people refuse to even acknowledge there are problems, except for an Admin who’s arm I've had to twist to get the discussion this far - speaks volumes for the seriousness of the situation.

This really isn't up to me. It's up to the forum members, and the people in charge. All I've done is brought serious issues to the surface. Whether or not anyone else here can handle and overcome them in a mature and serious manner is yet to be seen. How can you even pretend to make this a serious thread when

a) The thread title alone promotes conflict.
b) No one is likely to read this entire reply and actually digest the information contained within it.

In conclusion. What everyone chooses to do where b) is concerned, is ultimately going to decide the fate of this place as a forum for rational, understandable discussions on emulator related issues.
 
Last edited:

onewecallgod

New member
hagbard said:
Respect never was a privilege, is a right.
what kind of nonsense is that? respect is earned; it isn't just an entity to be loosely thrown around and given for free. are you suppose to respect those who just spew out drivel? of course not. are you saying that Hitler has a right to be respected even though he killed millions of innocent civilians?

here's a thought: vampy, you post in this thread again, and i'll ban you. your arguments thus far are worthless and without basis, therefore you cannot be trusted to continue. try me.
 

Lefteris_D

Administrator
Staff member
I took the time to read this essay, because that the only way I can describe it, twice to make sure I took everything in and not missed anything.

I also want to say that instead of your original thread what you should have done is write this post in the first place. It may be long but it also brings out a few things.

Out of all this There are several things I agree with and find more than logical. Some of them are the following:
I am sick of seeing lots of posts where someone else gave a resolution to the problem, and their answer is quoted and a totally unwarranted "I agree" or equivalent phrase is posted. These posts serve NO purpose. If anyone thinks otherwise, I'd love to hear what you possibly think can justify these types of posts.
I consider this not only a waste of space but also a waste of time for the person that writes the reply.

The other half of the problem here is, even when people who speak English natively post, they are posting unintelligible garbage half the time. They don't spell properly, use idiotic abbreviations and number for letter, or letter for letter substitutions. They write in one big sentence, no commas, and no periods, no anything...
This seems to be a problem that has been increasing not only here but every where. Sure, I can accept making typos and badly worded sentences in an instant messenger conversation or even in an online game(to save time). Still, doing such a thing while posting in a forum or writing an email is absurd. People need to learn to be willing to waste a few more seconds in order to write something that looks better provided that they have a good understanding of the language. You don't have to use complex terms or anything people, just make it possible for us to understand what you are saying.

One of the reasons the forum is in such a decrepit state is because of the random nature that appears to go into moderating. Some things slip by while others are dealt with. I mean what about that no bumping old threads rule? What if someone had to contribute some good information on the subject? A new post in most other forums is waste of bandwidth and time when a forum search could reveal an earlier topic to answer already. And as I noted before you even have some staff members who really post what accounts to little more than garbage nonsense, quoting solutions just to say "I agree", and a lot of the other junk around here that is not present on normal forums.
I am not completely against bumping old threads. If somebody has a good solution for a problem or new information on a subject then yeah, feel free to to bump a thread and post what you like. All you do is contribute with something good.

On the other hand bumping a thread that is even 1 minute long just to say "me too" or things like that is a waste of time. I'm not saying that if somebody thanks you for providing a solution you should not thank back. By all means, do that, but please tone down on all those "me too" posts.

This really isn't up to me. It's up to the forum members, and the people in charge. All I've done is brought serious issues to the surface. Whether or not anyone else here can handle and overcome them in a mature and serious manner is yet to be seen. How can you even pretend to make this a serious thread when
As you can see I've already agreed on the most important things with you and have no problem in accepting that those issues are there.

What I want now is recommendations.

It is clear that when it comes to members the path is a clear one way. All of us need to be more serious when writing our posts in order not to contribute to the whole problem and the ones that simply like posting things like "me too" need to stop.

How about the staff though? Do we need to go out on a "rampage" deleting one worded replies like that? Brute force alone is not going to help so this is where this thread comes in. You guys need to recommend an approach in to this. Set personal feelings aside and focus on the issue mentioned here and if "brute force" is called for then it will be done.


onewecallgod said:
what kind of nonsense is that? respect is earned; it isn't just an entity to be loosely thrown around and given for free. are you suppose to respect those who just spew out drivel? of course not. are you saying that Hitler has a right to be respected even though he killed millions of innocent civilians?

here's a thought: vampy, you post in this thread again, and i'll ban you. your arguments thus far are worthless and without basis, therefore you cannot be trusted to continue. try me.
Hitler, like all mass murderers, deserves no respect. That's a commonly accepted fact by the majority of the world.

There is no need to go as far as banning. If anyone considers this matter closed matter to them then they should simply not participate on their own free will.
 

Zach

New member
While you may not feel like brute force is required in every situation, there are going to be times when it is necesarry. It's just like house training a dog, or giving a child a spanking. You can say all you want - but sometimes they will not care until you smack them. Our first dog was instantly house trained after my dad rubbed her face in her shit. Our second dog didn't quite get it, but it eventually sunk in once we all started doing it to her.

Take one of the #1 rules on this forum. No requesting or providing links to a illegal material. I don't know if you guys actually ban for that, especially new members, but if you haven't you may want to try it for a while and see what happens.

Try getting creative with your account verification process, and maybe include change your registration process to include a question they must answer the most "Important Rule"? It could be a text box where admin has to look it over and approve of the members - or it could be a radio button with "Don't ask for ROMS and other illegal material" in bold vs a few other questions.. Any other answer than the illegal materials selection is an instant fail. With a system like that in place, no one in their right mind could sign up for the forum and then bitch at you, or about you at other places, claiming you suck and are mean and they didn't know.

I think a questionare, along with user-verification of forum registration requiring a proper e-mail (and thus ensuring they get it), along with the Welcome message in emails being adjusted to include the "Remember not to request ROMs, ISO's, MP3's or other illegal material" warning, would be an excellent detterant, and no one could claim ignorance, or hide behind a wall of don't knows. If they still sign up and do it.. They need to be banned, or no one is ever going to spread the word that "this is what happens if you sign up there and ask for roms!"

Start issuing warnings in PM about unintelligable posts/posters. X amount of warnings = a temp ban for a day. Continued infranctions make the temp bannings longer, until X amount of temp bannings = perma ban.

This simple solution alone could work to cleaning up and stopping a lot of the nonsensicle, broken-english to the point where you can't read type posts. And I dare say it needs to be all inclusive; as in Staff applicable. Of all the people on the forums, Staff memebers should be able to coherently talk and respond to other members in english. It shouldn't matter if the person is your buddy and you think he's a nice guy. Sometimes people don't have the skills to be effective. I had to deal with the same problem with OSG. I didn't lose any sleep over it though.

You can always come up with a "script" for lesser talented staff members to use as blanket replies where they would make sense in a situation, and have them refer things beyond their capability / willingness to take the time to interact coherently on - but that is only a band-aid and would have to be dealt with later on down the road.

I still think stupid replies such as "I agree" where the is a clear and prevelent pattern either over time, or in a short span of time, should always be case for deletion and PM notification of the problem, along with a warning not to keep doing it.

I also think that there need to be tigher requirements for staff who are regularly interacting with and giving advice to members.. There are dozens of posts where I have stopped because I got confused about wtf was going on, and what they were telling the person to do. I just see it more as a professionalism issue than anything I guess.

The number one thing to remember on the language issue is this. It is not the role of you or the web site to cater to anyone who doesn't speak English. Nor is it your role to teach anyone English, in any shape, way, or form. It is the personal responsiblity of the forum members to learn when they need to improve themselves, or to just move on to another place. It is even more certainly the responsibility of those on the staff to do something to improve their own communications skills. Frankly, I don't see how they can do that on a forum that encourages and accepts their lax interpretations of the language. We can all support and encourage them to do so, but we cannot magically make their improvements for them. Just like my family could not force me to further my education, or to actually get my GED for me. I had to do all the studying by myself. I had to learn new things by myself, and I had to take my tests and be there on time by myself. All they could do was support and encourage me to take the initiative and complete my tests.

It's the same situation here.

Onecalledgod still made an excellent point also, and it shouldn't be dismissed too easily. Respect is NOT a right. It is a privilege that is earned from your peers. I do not just hand out respect. I might command it naturally through my thoughts and actions, but I don't show up and demand respect. People can live without respect. They can't live without rights (if you call that living ). This isn't like the right to vote, or to have clean water and facilities, or the right to protect yourself.
 
Last edited:

Lefteris_D

Administrator
Staff member
Take one of the #1 rules on this forum. No requesting or providing links to a illegal material. I don't know if you guys actually ban for that, especially new members, but if you haven't you may want to try it for a while and see what happens.
Bans for that reason are quite rare. After a new member is informed that we cannot provide such material that is probably the last time he or she visits. If we ban for that it's only for repeated offence(requesting more than one time).

Try getting creative with your account verification process, and maybe include change your registration process to include a question they must answer the most "Important Rule"? It could be a text box where admin has to look it over and approve of the members - or it could be a radio button with "Don't ask for ROMS and other illegal material" in bold vs a few other questions.. Any other answer than the illegal materials selection is an instant fail. With a system like that in place, no one in their right mind could sign up for the forum and then bitch at you, or about you at other places, claiming you suck and are mean and they didn't know.
I made a slight change to the registration system. After you enter your birthday in you are prompted with message to read the rules(and a link to them) along with a warning that they should not bother registering if all they want to do is ask for roms. Afterwards, if you still want to, you can click the checkbox and continue.

If after that message they still go ahead and register they they will get what was coming to them.

I think a questionare, along with user-verification of forum registration requiring a proper e-mail (and thus ensuring they get it), along with the Welcome message in emails being adjusted to include the "Remember not to request ROMs, ISO's, MP3's or other illegal material" warning, would be an excellent detterant, and no one could claim ignorance, or hide behind a wall of don't knows. If they still sign up and do it.. They need to be banned, or no one is ever going to spread the word that "this is what happens if you sign up there and ask for roms!"
Read my previous comment. The letters in the warning are so large that it's impossible for them not to see it(unless you are blind). As for the the registration email address, I banned many "disposable" email providers. That way we try to ensure that they use some kind of legit email account.

Start issuing warnings in PM about unintelligable posts/posters. X amount of warnings = a temp ban for a day. Continued infranctions make the temp bannings longer, until X amount of temp bannings = perma ban.
Though the thought had crossed my mind in the past and at some point even worked on a draft on how much "strikes" each offence takes before you get the ban the system was hardly implemented. I guess I could find the .doc file and continue the work from where I left it off back then.

This simple solution alone could work to cleaning up and stopping a lot of the nonsensicle, broken-english to the point where you can't read type posts. And I dare say it needs to be all inclusive; as in Staff applicable. Of all the people on the forums, Staff memebers should be able to coherently talk and respond to other members in english. It shouldn't matter if the person is your buddy and you think he's a nice guy. Sometimes people don't have the skills to be effective. I had to deal with the same problem with OSG. I didn't lose any sleep over it though.
All the current staff are either native english speakers or have a fluent understanding of the language.
You can always come up with a "script" for lesser talented staff members to use as blanket replies where they would make sense in a situation, and have them refer things beyond their capability / willingness to take the time to interact coherently on - but that is only a band-aid and would have to be dealt with later on down the road.
I think you are over estimating my php coding skills as I am far from making such a system. Still, there are some "warning" systems out there though they still have many bugs and that is the reason why one has not been installed yet.
I still think stupid replies such as "I agree" where the is a clear and prevelent pattern either over time, or in a short span of time, should always be case for deletion and PM notification of the problem, along with a warning not to keep doing it.
Not all short replies are bad and sending private messages all the time would be an overkill(and will eventually cause a burnout on the staff). Instead, the "soft delete" system has proven to be quite effective in most cases. For an example see hitmonlee's attempt to post after your first post in this thread. This is what some people in other forums call a "tombstone".

------------------

Lastly regarding Vampyr's comment
If this thing goes into stupid arguments that are not in my favor (so to speak) I WILL leave this place
This thread was meant to have arguments in favor of this place(=the forum) and not individuals no matter who they are.

This is not a discussion in order to classify members as morons or not morons. I need to make it clear that IF I SEE FIGHTINGS between members in any parts of the forum then both of them(=including the receiver if he "bites" the hook) will get a short "bangift" from me. I think I've done enough talking on that matter and should start giving out some "tough love" instead.
 

Zach

New member
The script I was talking about was a standard response script, as in what all those annoying telemarketers, and tech-support people at big companies who don't know what they are doing use..

And, I really don't know what you consider to be fluent, But I could go dig up about 10 dozen examples of current staff members posting things that are either very hard to read, or borderline retarded.. - Honestly, I can do this. You are pretty much fluent, and I maybe spot some occassional mistakes. I'm fluent, naturally. A lot of others around here... Not so much.

And this is about as nice as I can be at this point. I've made my effort. I can't do anything else.
As for being aggressives with a striking / deletion / banning system burning out the staff, well... You don't get something for nothing.
 
Last edited:

hagbard

New member
onewecallgod said:
what kind of nonsense is that? respect is earned; it isn't just an entity to be loosely thrown around and given for free. are you suppose to respect those who just spew out drivel? of course not. are you saying that Hitler has a right to be respected even though he killed millions of innocent civilians?
Looks like you want to fight, no matter mods shouldn't. So yes, a new forum member is exactlly the same as Hitler, even worse probably, because of course you are able to completely psychoanalyze anyone with only reading one random post. Obviously true

onewecallgod said:
here's a thought: vampy, you post in this thread again, and i'll ban you. your arguments thus far are worthless and without basis, therefore you cannot be trusted to continue. try me.
Wrong answer, didn't you talk about I warn you? Try banning me instead
 
Last edited:

TGS

New member
Funny how every topic on this board ends up into a moderator-led power trip or a fest of irrelevant bullshit. This is probably the reason why no one but these aforementioned moderators post in this godforsaken place anymore. I honestly can't remember the last time I've seen an intelligent discussion take place that didn't end up in a flamewar. I think it's too easy to blame it all on the veterans on this board whom have gotten less active, or just stopped posting altogether. Let's just say that the latest influx of new members and their incoherent ramblings is withholding new, and interesting members from registering and actively becoming part of the EZ-community.

I used to love this place to death back in the old days; constantly refreshing the General Chat page for posts by guys like Chaohuei and Waz. It pains me to see what this place has turned into. Lefteris, we may have had our disagreements in the past but I think you have a good heart and are trying your utmost best to bring EZ back to its former glory. Good luck, mate.

Damn, sorry if I went way offtopic here. Just wanted to get it off my chest.
 

onewecallgod

New member
hagbard said:
Looks like you want to fight, no matter mods shouldn't. So yes, a new forum member is exactlly the same as Hitler
now you're just being obnoxious. hitler killed millions of people, therefore he loses respect. although this is an extreme case, its the same idea: a newbie gains respect by posting good info and by being intellegent and coherent. if you're going to post "lyk dis wey" you're obviously not showing much intellegence, therefore you don't deserve respect.
hagbard said:
Wrong answer, didn't you talk about I warn you? Try banning me instead
just give me the signal, and i'll press the button ;)
 

Lefteris_D

Administrator
Staff member
TGS said:
Lefteris, we may have had our disagreements in the past but I think you have a good heart and are trying your utmost best to bring EZ back to its former glory. Good luck, mate.
Despite our differences we did well together in the past so hearing such words from you actually means something. Thanks and I'll do my best.

Neco said:
And, I really don't know what you consider to be fluent, But I could go dig up about 10 dozen examples of current staff members posting things that are either very hard to read, or borderline retarded.. - Honestly, I can do this. You are pretty much fluent, and I maybe spot some occassional mistakes. I'm fluent, naturally. A lot of others around here... Not so much.
Try not to set standards that are so high, occassional mistakes and typos are expected and understandable even with the brightest people.


onewecallgod & hagbard said:
Regarding all the stuff they said in their last two posts
Are you two seriously trying to compare a new member who has yet to earn your respect by posting good things with Hitler??? Not only the two sizes compared are unequal but you are also being unfair to the new members themselves! Heck, I would not even compare trolls with Hitler!

Right now now I am going to break my personal policy of not discussting staff matters in public to say this: I don't give a rat's ass how this whole grudge came to be between the two of you but it ends TODAY! Both of you need to take a step back, several deep breaths and think both of what you and the other person has said. Once done, apologize to each other and shake hands(techicaly you can't do that but you know what I mean). Then and only then you will be able to solve your problem. Is that clear enough for both of you? I'm really not in the mood to play the judge once again in a moderator vs moderator conflict.

=======================================

It seems that everything that needed to be said has already been said quite extensively like stating the problem and suggestions about the cource of action. Right now what I need to do is clear my head and think. At some point tomorrow I'll start a thread in the mod forum stating a list of things that need to be done and try to make a working/viable solution that can be implemented in the cource of the next few days.

Right now this thread looks more like a litted torch next to a gas tank and you can surely guess what will happen if it stays that way. That's also the reason why I'm going to close it.

If anyone wants to suggest ideas an the matter feel free to send me a private message about it and I will make it public to the others as well.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top