thats so true montpic...........for the really good trojans, your anti-virus or your anti-spyware, wont even detect it..........i got this onr trojan that enbedded itself right into my systems file, mimicing them, i had a hell of a time finding it.......it copied itself within 4 hours, my one 40G hd went from havin a capaciety of 27G left in it, to being completely full, i had to get a tojan killer program, that identified the trojan, but it wouldnt get rid of it, once i found out what it was called i trapped the trojan in a read only file & used a incinerate program, to re-write the read only file 10 times, which finally got rid of it.......it took me bout 5 hrs. to finally dispose of that damn thing!! :fuckyou: