the_EMU_kid
New member
i wonder, if i buy a wii game and pop it in Dolphing emu should i care about the console, as long i own the game?
the same goes for DS
the same goes for DS
is emulation killing Nintendo ?
- Thread starter the_EMU_kid
- Start date
- Yes. Emulation killed the 64 system. But not by people like you IMO. Buying the game is a very honest approach to emulation. Granted buying the console is even better, but then why emulate, unless you just like to see it done.
Dolphin is not at the caliper as unltrHLE was, but its getting there. So far there is not as much of a demand for lamers to play games for free. But buying the game is certainly a generous step.
most people I know played Zelda 64 on there computers at the same time others did so on the real system. It was the first system to ever be emulated in production of the actually system its self ( at the time ). I do agree with you Zach, but not that emulation had nothing to do with it. Many feel the same way. But as the_EMU_kid said "as long i own the game" That's important. Pirating games will hurt the success of the console period. It may be a fraction of the percent, but it will hurt it.
CD based systems did over power the n64, agreed. But they opened a new door, easy to pirate. The Dream cast was killed by the ease of piracy. Of cause it was there own fault. PlayStation amongst most of the rest engineered the systems protection well enough to require a chip.
But on point here, really, Should you care... That my friend is on your own concision. If you feel wrong doing it, then dont.. Just buy the game. It is the right thing to do. Will it hurt the wii. I doubt it...
CD based systems did over power the n64, agreed. But they opened a new door, easy to pirate. The Dream cast was killed by the ease of piracy. Of cause it was there own fault. PlayStation amongst most of the rest engineered the systems protection well enough to require a chip.
But on point here, really, Should you care... That my friend is on your own concision. If you feel wrong doing it, then dont.. Just buy the game. It is the right thing to do. Will it hurt the wii. I doubt it...
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Hrothgar Good point.. what defines "failure" , well a limited selection of games would be one. Although it does beg the question what really does considers a failed system? IMO its the sales and game selection but I'm sure there is more to it. n64 was the only Nintendo system, at least that i cant think of, that has so few games. Obviously something went wrong. And many, many people agree it failed.. For example, lots of titles were pulled. I can recall them all but If you search you will find song great titles got canned.
Personally I love that damn system. The 64 bit 3d word first came alive on that system and I dont mean FPS 3d.... There were others.. like the Jag.. but the n64 had a yellow road for nothing but growth. The things that crippled its path were memory issues, cartridges, and sdk ( I can vouch for that), amongst many more... . It was not the first of its kind, but it was the first to take off. And then as you said.. came Sony..
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I can't agree that piracy killed the Dreamcast.. It certainly contributed to it, although they eventually did make changes to the DC hardware so it wouldn't boot up copied discs.
DC was Sega's last stand in the hardware market. It failed for a majority of reasons, but not because it was a poor system. Ultimately it came down to game selection, developer supports and Sega's age old fucked up marketing strategy that drove the Saturn into the ground with a lopsided majority of sports only games.
It was the right console at the wrong time. If they had been able to put out DC a year or so earlier it might have held on. Or conversely if they had held off until the current generation they might have stood a fighting chance.
DC was Sega's last stand in the hardware market. It failed for a majority of reasons, but not because it was a poor system. Ultimately it came down to game selection, developer supports and Sega's age old fucked up marketing strategy that drove the Saturn into the ground with a lopsided majority of sports only games.
It was the right console at the wrong time. If they had been able to put out DC a year or so earlier it might have held on. Or conversely if they had held off until the current generation they might have stood a fighting chance.
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retroguiden
Man of Many Talents
Piracy hasn't killed any of the major consoles. And piracy didn't kill any of the home computers that was so popular during the 80's and 90's. Back then it was pure propaganda from the companies and have been proven wrong. It's amusing that these misconceptions still lives on.
N64 was at best a moderate success, if that. Both the N64 and the GC are considered failures for Nintendo since they didn't reach up to the expectations by far.
The fact that it was emulated (not sure if that's a true statement since it wasn't very good back than and it demanded a lot of computer power) has almost nothing to do with it. As was the case with Sega, it was mostly due to bad corporate decisions that the N64 didn't fare better.
N64 was at best a moderate success, if that. Both the N64 and the GC are considered failures for Nintendo since they didn't reach up to the expectations by far.
The fact that it was emulated (not sure if that's a true statement since it wasn't very good back than and it demanded a lot of computer power) has almost nothing to do with it. As was the case with Sega, it was mostly due to bad corporate decisions that the N64 didn't fare better.
Piracy will never kill consoles. As long as people buy the games, then the companies are fine. Oh yeah lets not forget all the other gaming merchandise they put out too. They make a killing on our wallets with that too. I always buy next gen games. The older PS1,N64 and Genesis games can be harder to come buy, but I still buy those if i can find them.
FatTrucker
Abusus non tollit usum
Too few people emulate for it to ever become a threat to mainstream consoles. Bearing in mind most consoles can't even 'be' emulated properly until well after their commercial viability is long gone, and emulating at a computer will never really be an acceptable substitute for playing the original machine, on the sofa i front of your TV. For example the N64, PS1 and Saturn are all still not emulated fully and they are getting on for 15 years old. PS2 and GC emulation while coming along, is still not really at a level where it could be considered a viable alternative to the original hardware and current gen consoles, will be long off the market before you see emulators approaching 100% compatibility.
Piracy does have an impact on sales but Piracy and emulation are not one and the same thing. In many cases piracy can have a positive effect on sales. If you look at the PS1 as an example, part of its success was attributable to the fact that it was so easily modded and pirate games so readily available.
In a lot of cases each pirated game doesn't necessarily equate to a lost sale as most people using pirated software wouldn't purchase the number of games that they are quite happy to buy or download cheaply.
The N64 died as a result of market factors and because Nintendo failed to react to the changing market quickly enough. They persisted with an old business model making their console far more expensive to develop for than its competitors by choosing to stick with the limited cartridge format, so they could have maintain complete control of costs and distribution as they had with the NES and Snes.
Most devs simply jumped ship to the new CDRom format which offered massive storage (for the time) and much cheaper production costs. Married to Sony offering far less stringent content controls meaning developers could develop games they wanted to develop and with far less risk.
A lot of developers resented the way Nintendo did business and the amount of money it cost them to develop for their machines. Only the machines popularity kept them on board. With a company like Sony courting them for exclusivity, giving them all the support they needed along with virtually risk free development, most devs were happy to jump ship, leaving Nintendo to come to market (late as usual) only to find their pool of developers weren't there anymore and weren't prepared to invest in Nintendo's machine when they could make more money selling games on the PS1 (they would have to sell 3 to 4 times as many copies of a title on the N64 to make the same profit).
The N64 still had some fantastic games, the problem was you could count them on one hand. The system and games were more expensive, there was much less choice so fewer people bought one in the first 3 or 4 years. Fewer owners, meant less software sales and so Nintendo found itself in a catch 22 where developers wouldn't develop for the machine unless there was a solid userbase to drive sales and they couldn't sell enough machines to develop a solid userbase unless more people developed for it.
Finally though, Nintendo have never been as successful as they are at the moment. With the DS and Wii respectively leading the markets in all territories, and not showing any sign of relinquishing that grip, the commercial gaming market has never looked so healthy. Its the one area that so far at least seems completely immune to the global recession that's hitting so many other industries hard.
Its also important to remember that the console manufacturers make their money on software, not hardware. Its not usually until 3 or 4 years into a consoles life that it actually makes any profit on hardware sales, although in Ninty's case with the Wii using mainly existing tech it would have been profitable at a hardware level much sooner this time around as their R&D costs would have been significantly smaller than Sony and M$'s.
Piracy does have an impact on sales but Piracy and emulation are not one and the same thing. In many cases piracy can have a positive effect on sales. If you look at the PS1 as an example, part of its success was attributable to the fact that it was so easily modded and pirate games so readily available.
In a lot of cases each pirated game doesn't necessarily equate to a lost sale as most people using pirated software wouldn't purchase the number of games that they are quite happy to buy or download cheaply.
The N64 died as a result of market factors and because Nintendo failed to react to the changing market quickly enough. They persisted with an old business model making their console far more expensive to develop for than its competitors by choosing to stick with the limited cartridge format, so they could have maintain complete control of costs and distribution as they had with the NES and Snes.
Most devs simply jumped ship to the new CDRom format which offered massive storage (for the time) and much cheaper production costs. Married to Sony offering far less stringent content controls meaning developers could develop games they wanted to develop and with far less risk.
A lot of developers resented the way Nintendo did business and the amount of money it cost them to develop for their machines. Only the machines popularity kept them on board. With a company like Sony courting them for exclusivity, giving them all the support they needed along with virtually risk free development, most devs were happy to jump ship, leaving Nintendo to come to market (late as usual) only to find their pool of developers weren't there anymore and weren't prepared to invest in Nintendo's machine when they could make more money selling games on the PS1 (they would have to sell 3 to 4 times as many copies of a title on the N64 to make the same profit).
The N64 still had some fantastic games, the problem was you could count them on one hand. The system and games were more expensive, there was much less choice so fewer people bought one in the first 3 or 4 years. Fewer owners, meant less software sales and so Nintendo found itself in a catch 22 where developers wouldn't develop for the machine unless there was a solid userbase to drive sales and they couldn't sell enough machines to develop a solid userbase unless more people developed for it.
Finally though, Nintendo have never been as successful as they are at the moment. With the DS and Wii respectively leading the markets in all territories, and not showing any sign of relinquishing that grip, the commercial gaming market has never looked so healthy. Its the one area that so far at least seems completely immune to the global recession that's hitting so many other industries hard.
Its also important to remember that the console manufacturers make their money on software, not hardware. Its not usually until 3 or 4 years into a consoles life that it actually makes any profit on hardware sales, although in Ninty's case with the Wii using mainly existing tech it would have been profitable at a hardware level much sooner this time around as their R&D costs would have been significantly smaller than Sony and M$'s.
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the_EMU_kid
New member
most of you started to speak more about software piracy and not the console itselft but now ,lets take a look at the DS
http://ckodonnell.blogspot.com/2008/01/90-of-us-nintendo-ds-users-are-pirates.html
Why do they like do exagerate like that, thats imposible ,off-topic like saying that Crysis piracy ratio was 20 to 1 buy ,where the h to they get the numbers
http://ckodonnell.blogspot.com/2008/01/90-of-us-nintendo-ds-users-are-pirates.htmlWhy do they like do exagerate like that, thats imposible ,off-topic like saying that Crysis piracy ratio was 20 to 1 buy ,where the h to they get the numbers
interesting reading , the numbers are very hard to sustain. Its hard to get such a true figure. But that does bring one more good point to the table. If Piracy or emulation has no effect on production or sales, then why do they take legal action against it? Sure Nintendo, and Sony are well off and can afford it, but they are not stupid. Why spend money to prevent something that does not hurt you? Taking legal action is not cheap.most of you started to speak more about software piracy and not the console itselft but now ,lets take a look at the DS
Why do they like do exagerate like that, thats imposible ,off-topic like saying that Crysis piracy ratio was 20 to 1 buy ,where the h to they get the numbers
FT, as usual that was a very enlightening post. but..
You need to see my set up. I would never play facing a computer. Notin' but sofa for me.
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FatTrucker
Abusus non tollit usum
Nice, I have had 3 people now that asked where the console was.. Snes, and PSX ( twice ). I like to have the Sony bios turned on, and of course I use the original controllersSame here, all running on a 42" LCD but most people don't do it properly like we do.
I don't think anyone will ever get some firm numbers on piracy and how it affects sales. Furthermore there are many categories to consider within piracy, such as economic factors. My biggest reason for pirating is because I cannot afford to spend $50+ on a fucking game that offers very little in the way of length of play time, and replay value.
Adding to this that most games that come out are just one-off's of each others and its hard for me to buy a game with confidence, that its gonna be something new, and take me a while to beat.
RPG's and strategy games on consoles are an exception, and I am most likely to buy those based on the fact that you can't beat them in 5 - 9 hours, and they offer replay value in most cases.
As for why they go after piracy.. it's just like with the RIAA.. They aren't making as much as they think they should, sales are down, or whatever. So who do you blame? The software pirates. It's just a convenient scapegoat, and they have the added leverage of the fact piracy is an illegal act.
Adding to this that most games that come out are just one-off's of each others and its hard for me to buy a game with confidence, that its gonna be something new, and take me a while to beat.
RPG's and strategy games on consoles are an exception, and I am most likely to buy those based on the fact that you can't beat them in 5 - 9 hours, and they offer replay value in most cases.
As for why they go after piracy.. it's just like with the RIAA.. They aren't making as much as they think they should, sales are down, or whatever. So who do you blame? The software pirates. It's just a convenient scapegoat, and they have the added leverage of the fact piracy is an illegal act.
Hi guys, I think that Emulation didn't kill Nintendo. Most people who found out about emulators once had the real game that they didn't have anymore. Once people found out that someone can emulate some of these games, they eventually becomes fans of Nintendo, probably leading up to the increased buying of Nintendo products. And plus, I also think that the emulation of the Nintendo systems are preserving the Old way of gaming, same think goes with the systems like Atari, Genesis, Saturn, and all others. So, yeah, I think that Emulation is actually Helping these companies.
AnAutisticDog
Such Coin. Many Doge.
I think terrible Hardware is killing Nintendo.
They need to be a Software only company like SEGA. IMO
They need to be a Software only company like SEGA. IMO
+1 to everything fat trucker said.
MPAA, along with the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA), have yet to win a case in court. No judge or jury has ruled what is law or not. It's just propaganda. Unfortunately, in America's adversarial legal system, unless you can pay for legal defense (read:you actions makes $$ which giving/working free things for the community does not) then you will get bullied around.
N64 did not have an emulator that was viable at the time of system release. All these old games aren't worth crap and are not commercially viable. Sega dreamcast system was selling for like $20 two years ago, let alone older games. They are not even available on the shelves.
Actually it is cheap when your not challenged at all. They are just sending out generic bullying letters that they know no one will fight. Do you know the snake oil company monster cable abuses these tactics to get unfair business advantages. link
MPAA, along with the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA), have yet to win a case in court. No judge or jury has ruled what is law or not. It's just propaganda. Unfortunately, in America's adversarial legal system, unless you can pay for legal defense (read:you actions makes $$ which giving/working free things for the community does not) then you will get bullied around.
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/7764.cfm
N64 did not have an emulator that was viable at the time of system release. All these old games aren't worth crap and are not commercially viable. Sega dreamcast system was selling for like $20 two years ago, let alone older games. They are not even available on the shelves.
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