if a 3rd person metroid...

[ulaoulao]

Pretend for a moment you're a game developer and your making a 3rd person metroid game, like zelda 64. Using this layout below and remembering how the n64 joystick is laid out. What would you suggest.

|holding center grip|
Analog movement
b - shoot
a - jump
z - duck -> ball
start - menu
Yellow buttons
u - 1st person target mode
d - change to missiles or alternative weapon.
l - swing cam left
r - swing cam right

Problem buttons
I need
up , angle up, straight , angle down.
my thoughts
Left - angle up
right- angle up
left and right - up
none for straight
But as you know its not posible to hit the left button holding the joystick this way. - any thoughts??

other
directionals - menu items


|thought 2 |
Analog movement
b - shoot
a - jump
directional down - change weapon
start - menu
Yellow buttons
u - 1st person target mode
d - duck -> ball
l - swing cam left
r - swing cam right

Z - angle down
right- angle up
z and right - up
none straight

[Desert Drifter]

Nah pal, keyboards are horrible, even the original N64 controller - always been both a pain in the neck for me... Though "pretending" to be a marvelous "programmer"... yea can program the layout to use of a PC controller as you may be just required to own an eighteen button total one with either (two analogs and ten programmable buttons) or (one analog, one digital, and ten programmable buttons)...

A line-up for ya:

-- MOVEMENT --
(With N64 layout - "Analog" buttons...)

*UP - (Joy Up) "left side analog"
*BACK - (Joy Down) "left side analog"
*RIGHT - (Joy Right) "left side analog"
*LEFT - (Joy Left) "left side analog"


-- ACTION --
(With N64 layout - "A", "B", "Z", and "Right Shoulder" buttons...)

*SHOOT - (HOLD FOR CHARGE) - (Joypad: 1) "right side pad"
*JUMP - (Joypad: 2) "right side pad"
*DUCK (TWICE FOR BALL) - (Joypad: 3) "right side pad"
*SELECT WEAPON - (Joypad: 4) "right side pad"


-- VIEW --
(With N64 layout- "Up C", "Down C", "Right C", and "Left C" buttons...)

*1ST PERSON - (Rz -) "right side analog"
*AIM/TARGET - (Rz +) "right side analog"
*SWING CAM RIGHT - (Z +) "right side analog"
*SWING CAM LEFT - (Z -) "right side analog"


-- OTHER --
(With N64 layout - "Start" button...)

*START (MENU) - (Joypad: 10) "middle button"


Just a thought using a Dual Logitech controller, though might not be perfected to everyone's, but an ideal thrown to ya as a "today's" basic, as there's also four free-able buttons to play with (one middle and three shoulder)...

Now only thing missing: wonding of why such a question...

[ulaoulao]

Nah pal, keyboards are horrible, even the original N64 controller - always been both a pain in the neck for me... Though "pretending" to be a marvelous "programmer"... yea can program the layout to use of a PC controller as you may be just required to own an eighteen button total one with either (two analogs and ten programmable buttons) or (one analog, one digital, and ten programmable buttons)...

- Your confusing me? keyboard??? I'm talking about a n64 joystick specifically. Just stick with this naming and none of that joypad: # stuff.. Just pretend harder that you limited to a n64 joystick only.

naming
digital up
digital down
digital right
digital keft
analog up
analog down
analog right
analog left
a
b
z
start
l button (shoulder left)
r button (shoulder right)

So far I like my second lay out

Analog movement
b - shoot
a - jump
directional down - change weapon
start - menu
Yellow buttons
u - 1st person target mode
d - duck -> ball
l - swing cam left
r - swing cam right

this way I free up the z button to act like the super metroid game with l and r, only I use z instead.

Z - angle down
right- angle up
z and right - up
none straight

The other option was z for targeting like zelda but this is metroid were some skill is required, so that sorta lame.

[Desert Drifter]

Alright - let me correct that:

-- MOVEMENT --
*UP - (ANALOG UP)
*BACK - (ANALOG DOWN)
*RIGHT - (ANALOG RIGHT)
*LEFT - (ANALOG LEFT)


-- ACTION --
*SHOOT (A) "HOLD FOR CHARGE"
*JUMP (B)
*DUCK (Z) "TWICE FOR BALL"
*SELECT WEAPON (RIGHT SHOULDER)


-- VIEW --
*1ST PERSON (C - UP)
*AIM/TARGET (C - DOWN)
*SWING CAM RIGHT (C - RIGHT)
*SWING CAM LEFT (C - LEFT)


-- OTHER --
*START MENU (START)


About the "targeting", I'm talking about the lines of "Body Harvest" allowing of stance while only moving your cannon around to aim correctly - freeing up the directional pad, and eliminating the "angles" as they will frustrate the player more then help - though don't forget the other free "left shoulder"...

Your ideal, but just throwing crap at ya....

[ulaoulao]

I like the premise here but please elaborate.

"I ulaoulao have not plaid Body Harvest"

" Hi ulaoulao.."

Ok thats out of the way, so what is it like? I guess I could pop it in the old emulator and play it...

Keep in mind the FPS will give you a target when standing. Hitting this target button could do the same in 3rd person. but this does not help while moving. Witch is my bigger problem.

During running if you shoot you will shoot straight ahead. You can jump to get more elevation , or turn a few degrees to aim, but I need a way to angel the cannon. The game will have an "option" to proximate the shot. Make it easier if desired, but I still see a need for angels.



EDIT after playing, I think I see what you mean.

I changed the weapon select and targeting, since it would be hard to press shoot(b) and c-down.



analog - movement
b - shoot
a - jump

start - menu
Yellow buttons
u - 1st person target mode
d - change weapon
l - swing cam left
r - swing cam right

z - duck -> ball
LEFT shoulder - targeting (if pressed you keep running your current speed and direction and the analog is now for targeting) (if not running its the same but you stay stopped)

** for the purposes of the source game engine, I may warp to FP mode during targeting. Not sure yet, ill try both ways.



Is that what you would suggest?

[Desert Drifter]

Eh... okay...

Anyway - to the subject of "AIM/TARGET", hence an ideal from "Body Harvest" & "Star Fox - Assault"... as holding "AIM", you can move the angle of the gun (with "C" buttons - staying in stance only - using a different control until button "AIM" is "released"...) to fire up/down/right/left while in-game camera stays and follows behind Samus. By letting go of "AIM", you can quickly move by foot with "ANALOG" to move out of the way to reposition for holding "AIM" again to target... As the button "AIM" isn't no longer held, Samus just shoots straight while using "C RIGHT/LEFT" to spin camera around and "C UP" to see 1st person...

- As I stand corrected (by mentioned fact...):

-- MOVEMENT --
*UP - (ANALOG UP)
*BACK - (ANALOG DOWN)
*RIGHT - (ANALOG RIGHT)
*LEFT - (ANALOG LEFT)


-- ACTION --
*SHOOT (B) "HOLD FOR CHARGE"
*JUMP (A)
*DUCK (Z) "TWICE FOR BALL"
*SELECT WEAPON (C - DOWN)


-- VIEW (NOT HOLDING "AIM/TARGET") --
*1ST PERSON (C - UP)
*SWING CAM RIGHT (C - RIGHT)
*SWING CAM LEFT (C - LEFT)
*AIM/TARGET (RIGHT SHOULDER)

-- VIEW (HOLDING "AIM/TARGET") --
*MOVE CANNON UP (C - UP)
*MOVE CANNON DOWN (C - DOWN)
*MOVE CANNON RIGHT (C - RIGHT)
*MOVE CANNON LEFT (C - LEFT)


-- OTHER --
*START MENU (START)

...Looks great to me, though 1st person for targeting would be a "Prime" while using the "RIGHT SHOULDER" for "AIM" doesn't make ya stretch your hand across the controller (using an original N64 controller that is...)...

[ulaoulao]

Ah ok, good thought... I like the c buttons for moving the cannon. This way I could still be running and targeting at the same time. Sorta critical in metroid since you have to charge up runs and what not.

Thx man.

[ulaoulao]

WAs going to edit post, but I think my time ran up.

Ok opinion 2. Yay or na..

If you meet a corridor, and you go down, much like the 2d version. Do you think the camera should follow you, or pan out much like melee did and become a 3d/2d side scroller.

[Desert Drifter]

WAs going to edit post, but I think my time ran up.

Ok opinion 2. Yay or na..

If you meet a corridor, and you go down, much like the 2d version. Do you think the camera should follow you, or pan out much like melee did and become a 3d/2d side scroller.

The camera should follow I guess, but maybe yea can "experiment" with other ideals as it gets more "in-depth", though "meele's" pan-out was hard to see, especially details ...

You said something about "pretending" to be a programmer - what are we exactly speaking of now? The sudden skeletons popping up out of the grounds of Zebes is starting to become very "suspicious" pal...

[ulaoulao]

Right right, I must have stretched your imaginative limits to hard. Must stop kidding our selves and get back to reality. There never will be such a game anyways