PC Upgrading Help

Jale

Jale

Active member
Now, after 4 years of having the same computer, it's time to upgrade it. The other reason that led me to take this desicion is the death of my ATI Radeon X1600 (well, the whole card is fine, but the fan is broken and burnt) and there's no point in buying another old AGP card. Keep in mind I never do overclocking, so that's not the cause.

These are the alternatives I have in mind (Yeah, the prices are high, but the minimum legal income is about $300 per month, so I'll manage):

Processor:

  • Intel Core 2 Duo E6000 2.40 GHz 1066 FSB ($ 400).
  • Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 2.66 GHz 1066 FSB ($ 500).
  • Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.66 1066 FSB ($ 680).
Memory:

  • 1 GB DDR2 Kingston ($ 80 X 2).
  • 1 GB DDR2 (other brands) ($ 70 X 2).
Graphics:

  • nVIDIA GeForce 8600 GT 256 MB ($ 610).
  • nVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT 640 MB ($ 1,000). -- Nay, too expensive --
  • ATI Radeon HD 2600 Pro 256 MB ($ 270).
  • ATI Radeon HD 3850 256 MB ($ 610).
HDD:

  • Western Digital 500 GB 7200 RPM SATA ($ 360) -- Quite expensive, but affordable --
  • Hitachi 160 GB 7200 RPM SATA ($ 190).
  • Samsung 400 GB 7200 RPM SATA ($ 280).
Motherboard (Socket 775):

-- Need suggestion here --
 
TchuBacha

TchuBacha

I am the Stig
$1000 for an Nvidia 8800gt?? Is it made out of solid gold or something?

I think you should try to stretch to 2GB of RAM unless your trying to keep costs down for now and upgrade in the near future.

The difficult question is Core 2 Duo or Core 2 Quad. Most people would say "go for Duo as they are cheaper and most programs dont take advantage of quad cores yet so why bother?". If you arent going to run any heavy programs then I'd go for a Core 2 Duo, then buy a quad if you find you need it in the future when they become cheap (And obsolete?)

But then some people argue "buy a Core 2 Quad now, the price difference isnt too bad. Why restrict yourself now, you might want to play an awesome game/run a hungry program tomorrow but can't because your CPU is slow".

Will you really need 500gb of hard drive space? I usually burn of any DVD images/roms/movies etc ive got so I dont need too much HDD space. Maybe go for a smaller hard drive now, then if you find you need more space buy a second hdd...

Graphics card I know little about. All I know is if the numbers on the left and right are high then its a good powerful card.

Asus seem to be a good reliable motherboard manufacturer.

You will need a decent PSU aswell if you are going to get a new gpu as they use alot of power. Dont get a cheap one!!!11
 
Jale

Jale

Active member
TchuBacha said:
$1000 for an Nvidia 8800gt?? Is it made out of solid gold or something?
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Like 75% of computer stores are mafias... no kidding!

I think you should try to stretch to 2GB of RAM unless your trying to keep costs down for now and upgrade in the near future.
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Check the X2 next to the prices.

The difficult question is Core 2 Duo or Core 2 Quad. Most people would say "go for Duo as they are cheaper and most programs dont take advantage of quad cores yet so why bother?". If you arent going to run any heavy programs then I'd go for a Core 2 Duo, then buy a quad if you find you need it in the future when they become cheap (And obsolete?)

But then some people argue "buy a Core 2 Quad now, the price difference isnt too bad. Why restrict yourself now, you might want to play an awesome game/run a hungry program tomorrow but can't because your CPU is slow".
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I'm probably going to get AMD instead of Intel anyway. Any good AMD dual core out there?

Will you really need 500gb of hard drive space? I usually burn of any DVD images/roms/movies etc ive got so I dont need too much HDD space. Maybe go for a smaller hard drive now, then if you find you need more space buy a second hdd...
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I'll probably go with a 160 GB or 250 GB one.

Graphics card I know little about. All I know is if the numbers on the left and right are high then its a good powerful card.
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I know. That's why I chose them, but I mostly need nVIDIA cards.

Asus seem to be a good reliable motherboard manufacturer.
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I'll keep that in mind. All I see around here is AsRock (sucks), MSI and Foxconn. Prices are good though.

You will need a decent PSU aswell if you are going to get a new gpu as they use alot of power. Dont get a cheap one!!!11
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So I can't use my current PSU, can I? Just what I thought. It's a shame, because my PSU is 550 W.
 
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Jale

Jale

Active member
I have another card in mind:

  • ATI Radeon HD 3850 ($ 500) -- High price, but affordable --

The card has 668 MHz of core speed and 1.66 GHz of memory speed.

My current card has 500 MHz of core speed and a ridiculous 400 MHz of memory speed. That explains the low framerate of a video card with powerful core speed.

Cnet gives this card a score of 8/10, though the real price (in the US) is about $ 200.
 
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Z

Zach

New member
Are you allowed to import goods from the USA Or Canada? If so it might turn out cheaper to order from either country and have it shipped to you. This is just an idea though, I don't have any facts on hand to say one way or the other.

While there is no question your old card is slower, your performance can also be attributed to your CPU speed as well, that being said if you can get away with it and you are happy with the rest of your PC, just replace the video card. Hell you could probably just buy a new fan for your video card if it still works otherwise.

But anyway, you CANNOT just rely on GPU/Memory speeds when buying a graphics card. There are too many variables involved; graphics core architecture, main CPU speed, etc. You need to first decide how much you are willing to pay for each part and SET A BUDGET. Setting a budget is the best way to shop because you have a rough idea of what you want to spend, and how much money you want to go to each part MAX.

Then if you buy a piece of hardware cheaper than you expect for one category, you can apply the leftover funds to another piece of hardware and still come in on budget or less. If you are gonna buy a Nvidia based card go for an 8800 model MINIMUM. That's what I am doing, aiming for the GTS. I don't know what to recommend for ATI, I don't like them at all.

Also GPU bits and RAM are crucially important to performance. These days 256-bit should be the minimum you go with. Also the amount of RAM is extremely important especially if you like to use anti-aliasing. FSAA eats up RAM like you wouldn't believe, and the reason a lot of cards only support it up to certain resolutions is because of a physical limitation by the amount of RAM on the card. I would suggest a minimum amount of RAM to consider as 512MB (been the max end for years now anyway). Try to get 640MB or even 768MB if you can afford it.. Obviously you can't afford 768 but if you can squeeze it out of your budget, try to get 640MB.

HardOCP, Anandtech, Toms Hardware. Live and breathe these sites looking for reviews of hardware you plan to purchase. Whether it's a Video card, CPU, or motherboard. Don't shop based on hardware stats, it gets you nowhere but disappointed and ripped off.

C2D
Dual or Quad? Go with dual core. It's been pointed out you can future proof but you have to consider this. Even if you buy a quad-core now, by the time a lot of games (let alone emulators) come out that can use the quad core, it will already be too slow to make much of a difference and you'll find yourself purchasing a new one.

Try to get a C2D as close to 3ghz as possible.. Even if you don't O/C plenty have been able to overclock a couple hundred Mhz on stock cooling (I can push min up an additional 300mhz or so) Also get 1333FSB. No matter what your clock speed is, as long as you have a Motherboard, CPU and memory that all support 1333Mhz your system will be a little bit faster. Even at the exact same clock speed a 1333Mhz FSB system will always perform faster than one with a slower BUS.

Forget DDR3 ram for the time being. It's brand new technology, it's gonna be the most expensive, and it's performance vs DDR2 may be negligable. DDR2 prices have been raped thanks. You can't get much better than 4GB DDR2 for around $45 or less. I recommend a minimum of 4GB today between the ever increasing needs of applications and games, and for some reason I have a feeling Vista won't really function optimally unless you have a good supply of 6 - 8GB.

You are almost certainly going to need a top quality, brand new power supply to run all this shit, no matter WHAT you buy. It's gotta be at LEAST 500W to be on the safe side IMHO. If you skimp on the PSU you can be in for a world of trouble from something simply like your PC not turning on, or shutting down after only a few minutes/seconds/watever.. Or eve worse full on system instability (random resets, crashes, BSOD. These days Modular PSU's are likely the way to go, I own on one myself, and it's nice to only have to plug in the ones you need and not have to worry about the rest...


It's real late so sorry for any typos and sentences that make no sense at all.. I'll back back later on in the day with more advice if needed
 
Jale

Jale

Active member
Zach said:
Are you allowed to import goods from the USA Or Canada? If so it might turn out cheaper to order from either country and have it shipped to you. This is just an idea though, I don't have any facts on hand to say one way or the other.
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The proccess of getting currency exchange is very strict (to not say "extremely"), so no.

While there is no question your old card is slower, your performance can also be attributed to your CPU speed as well, that being said if you can get away with it and you are happy with the rest of your PC, just replace the video card. Hell you could probably just buy a new fan for your video card if it still works otherwise.
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I just tested the card and no, it doesn't give me any signal. It's dead :(

But anyway, you CANNOT just rely on GPU/Memory speeds when buying a graphics card. There are too many variables involved; graphics core architecture, main CPU speed, etc. You need to first decide how much you are willing to pay for each part and SET A BUDGET. Setting a budget is the best way to shop because you have a rough idea of what you want to spend, and how much money you want to go to each part MAX.
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I'm currently thinking on it. I wan't to get the necessary stuff first. Graphics card is not a priority for now.

Then if you buy a piece of hardware cheaper than you expect for one category, you can apply the leftover funds to another piece of hardware and still come in on budget or less. If you are gonna buy a Nvidia based card go for an 8800 model MINIMUM. That's what I am doing, aiming for the GTS. I don't know what to recommend for ATI, I don't like them at all.
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GeForce 8800 GTS you mean? Well, this one is very expensive, as expensive as the 8800 GT I listed. I'm sure there's another one a lot cheaper.

Also GPU bits and RAM are crucially important to performance. These days 256-bit should be the minimum you go with. Also the amount of RAM is extremely important especially if you like to use anti-aliasing. FSAA eats up RAM like you wouldn't believe, and the reason a lot of cards only support it up to certain resolutions is because of a physical limitation by the amount of RAM on the card. I would suggest a minimum amount of RAM to consider as 512MB (been the max end for years now anyway). Try to get 640MB or even 768MB if you can afford it.. Obviously you can't afford 768 but if you can squeeze it out of your budget, try to get 640MB.
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512 MB sounds good. I'm not into FSAA anyway. For some reason it doesn't look good on a LCD monitor.

HardOCP, Anandtech, Toms Hardware. Live and breathe these sites looking for reviews of hardware you plan to purchase. Whether it's a Video card, CPU, or motherboard. Don't shop based on hardware stats, it gets you nowhere but disappointed and ripped off.
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I'll keep that in mind.

C2D
Dual or Quad? Go with dual core. It's been pointed out you can future proof but you have to consider this. Even if you buy a quad-core now, by the time a lot of games (let alone emulators) come out that can use the quad core, it will already be too slow to make much of a difference and you'll find yourself purchasing a new one.
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Hell, I don't even know if I'm going for Intel or AMD. I'll probably go with Intel, specially the Core 2 Duo E6000.

Try to get a C2D as close to 3ghz as possible.. Even if you don't O/C plenty have been able to overclock a couple hundred Mhz on stock cooling (I can push min up an additional 300mhz or so) Also get 1333FSB. No matter what your clock speed is, as long as you have a Motherboard, CPU and memory that all support 1333Mhz your system will be a little bit faster. Even at the exact same clock speed a 1333Mhz FSB system will always perform faster than one with a slower BUS.
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The fastest Core 2 Duo I've seen in the country is 2.66 GHz and it's totally un-affordable for me. I can barely afford a 2.40 GHz one.

Forget DDR3 ram for the time being. It's brand new technology, it's gonna be the most expensive, and it's performance vs DDR2 may be negligable. DDR2 prices have been raped thanks. You can't get much better than 4GB DDR2 for around $45 or less. I recommend a minimum of 4GB today between the ever increasing needs of applications and games, and for some reason I have a feeling Vista won't really function optimally unless you have a good supply of 6 - 8GB.
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Oh well, that's shit. I don't think I'm gonna need that much RAM for the time being and I'm not moving to Vista either. I'll stick with Windows XP (64-bit, perhaps?). I know the 8800 GT/GTS needs Vista to render DirectX 10 graphics, but if it works on Windows XP (at least DirectX 9), it doesn't matter.

You are almost certainly going to need a top quality, brand new power supply to run all this shit, no matter WHAT you buy. It's gotta be at LEAST 500W to be on the safe side IMHO. If you skimp on the PSU you can be in for a world of trouble from something simply like your PC not turning on, or shutting down after only a few minutes/seconds/watever.. Or eve worse full on system instability (random resets, crashes, BSOD. These days Modular PSU's are likely the way to go, I own on one myself, and it's nice to only have to plug in the ones you need and not have to worry about the rest...
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Good thing they're cheap (PSU). I currently have 550 W but I'm sure it won't fit my new gear.

Also, I'm not expecting a top-of-the-line computer, I just want to move to a different architecture so I can upgrade easier.
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Z

Zach

New member
Yeah PSU's may be "cheap" but remember what I said. Don't skimp. To be on the safe side buy an Antec, or either Thermalright or Thermaltake - I forget which one it is.. they have good PSU's for a good price.

C2D alone is gonna require a decent CPU due to power requirements. Plus the standard has changed on mobos these days. You need ATX12v 2.0

These come with 24 pin connectors for the mobo, so you can always tell them apart from others. Any new mobo is gonna come with a 24-pin power connector. I got off easy when I first made the jump to AMD64 and my mobo worked with my existing 20-pin Antec. But you don't want to do this. Don't fall for the 20 -> 24-pin converters either.

The video card I was looking at in my own upgrade thread (title: DDR3) also comes with 640MB of RAM for just under $300, instead of the one I posted for just under $200.. I may yet get the 640MB version myself but the 320MB version will probably suit you fine as well, and you may be hard pressed to find a similar performing 512MB card.. Since you don't care about FSAA you can probably do great with the 320MB version.

I have looked at all the price ranges for performance and this is really the best deal you can get right now..

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127328

My Core 2 Du comes at 2.13Ghz stock, Conroe core. I love it even at stock speeds. It's fast, the emulators I've tried had run great (though not perfect, but not because of my CPU/GPU) and games run awesome too.

For example to buy that video card, plus the other components you will need.. here is a price in USD, based on the same parts in my rig (less the video card).

8800GTS /320-bit /320MB - $199

Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R Motherboard (GREAT but not the cheapest. The onboard sound works awesome and sounds great ) - $129

Intel C2D Conroe - 4MB cache, 2.33Ghz / 1333FSB. This is better than my Conroe chip but the same price that I paid for mine I think (mine is now more expensive/out of stock!) Also mine was only 1066FSB $169

Mushkin 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) - $45.99 It's not 1333Mhz (to match the FSB) because that was WAY more expensive, but in the BIOS you can throttle the RAM to keep it in spec while keeping your higher FSB so it's all good.

Antec Neo Power 500 ATX12V 500W Power Supply 100Vac to 240Vac +/- 10% UL, CUL, TUV, CE, FCC, CCC, CB, C-tick
I think this is the same model I have (I can't find my box) but it looks like it to me.. It's got the modular cables so you can only install the cables you need to keep your case nice and tidy, and 500W should do you good. It's a bit pricey tho.. Many of these things have rebated (this one is $50 after rebate) - $84.99


That's pretty much the cost in USD to buy a decent PC for yourself.. By no means a top-end rig, but a respectable one nonetheless.

$527 USD.. this is without rebates.. If you got all the rebated it would be around $470 - $480 I think.. which is what it cost me to build mine about half a year ago. If you think that's horrible consider this.. When I built mine I didn't buy a graphics card, or RAM.. I just bough the CPU, motherboard, and Power Supply.
 
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Jale

Jale

Active member
You know what's funny? Current stock here are GeForce 6200, Radeon X300 and inferior cards. That means I got luck finding my X1600.

Of course I'm gonna need the necessary parts (mobo, CPU, RAM and PSU). That's why I stated a video card is not a priority for now.
 
Z

Zach

New member
Yeah I know, I just thought I'd mention it because it's not every day you see hardware priced like that..

I'd die if I had to live with your PC parts market..
 
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onewecallgod

New member
You should just order off Newegg and have someone ship it to you. Even after international shipping, I'd bet you'd still save a huge amount.
 
Z

Zach

New member
Somehow I doubt American goods would survive their postal system long, with the current administration :happy: lol
 
Jale

Jale

Active member
onewecallgod said:
You should just order off Newegg and have someone ship it to you. Even after international shipping, I'd bet you'd still save a huge amount.
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I dunno. There's a rumour CADIVI (the institute in charge of currency exchange) will increase the $ 400 limit to $ 1,300, since you can't buy shit with $ 400... per year. I'll wait and see what to do.

Many people have recommended Newegg for computer parts.
 
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onewecallgod

New member
Can't you just have the package listed as a gift on the customs forms? Or, say it's worth a lot less.
 
Z

Zach

New member
Problem is if you declare it for less than it is worth, and buy insurance, and then something happens to it; you're screwed. Assuming you even get money back you wouldn't even get the full value..

Might be better to ask Newegg if they will ship to Venezuela, and then arrange something with a friend in the states to exchange money with them.
 
Jale

Jale

Active member
I'm thinking on the second option. I have a friend who goes to the states regularly.
 
Jale

Jale

Active member
I chose Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4 GHz 4 MB L2 cache 1066 MHz FSB as processor. Is it any good?

EDIT: Here's another one: Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0 GHz 4M Shared L2 Cache.
 
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Zach

New member
The Conroe is an expensive one but it seems to be a good chip. 1333FSB is the max out now, but even RAM for that speed can be expensive.. A good motherboard will let you set BIOS options to keep it running at the correct ratio though (so you could use DDR2-800 or DDR2-1066 RAM instead)

Seems like a good overclocker too if you ever want to go down that route.


The first chip is also a good overclocker and a lot cheaper.. There's no reason you can't push it to 3ghz+ with possibly even your stock intel HSF unit (as long as your case has good airflow and stays cool). I can push my 2.13 up to around 2.6 or so with good results, on the stock HSF. And if you get a mobo that supports 1333mhz FSB, it will make overclocking all the easier as you know will at least get the board to go that high and be stable.

So the potential for great performance is there with the less expensive chip.. You won't match the OC the higher clocked chip can likely do, but you can get the same speed on your cheaper CPU that it would cost a ton just to get as a base speed on the more expensive one.

Pair that CPU with a good board, and DDR-2 800 RAM minimum, and a good power supply and you will be good to go.. I strongly reccomend getting a board like or similar to my Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R. It is gonna give you good potential, supports 1333mhz FSB, the latest CPU 45nm core from Intel.. all around a good board. Maybe not the best model you can get now, but something based around it, or labled as its successor would be a good investment

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128086

This one looks a little better than mine. I don't think my model supports quad cores, so this is future proof
 
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Jale

Jale

Active member
I started saving money. I made $120 in only 3 days and I'll start working this Monday.

So I'm mainly getting the Core 2 Duo E6850 (3 GHz), a motherboar that supports 1333 FSB, a good 1 GB DDR2 memory (that's enough for me. I'm not gonna run Vista for some time) and a 150 GB (minimum) SATA drive.
 
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