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? yeah, umm, no, thats incorrect
everywhere on this forum, people say pc's just arnt powerfull enough for xbox 360 and ps3 emulators, which, isnt correct, how so? because it has been proven time and time again, that pc's (provided the specs are decent) are MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, more powerfull then consoles, i would include pictures to prove this, but, well,
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post made by new forum users that has a URL (link) in it (even for images) will be put in the moderation queue and may not be visible until a moderator approves it manually.
so, are people just to lazy to make one, and just blame it on false info, or do you guys really not know, that pc's are a LOT, more powerfull then consoles (once again, depending on the specs)
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Re: ? yeah, umm, no, thats incorrect
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everywhere on this forum, people say pc's just arnt powerfull enough for xbox 360 and ps3 emulators, which, isnt correct, how so?
Well first off what do you mean by emulators. Are we talking running games? Because if not, then not shit of course a computer can run it. Now on the other hand if you mean run 360 or ps3 games playable on a computer vith an emulator, then answer the following.
1) Why on earth would you say that since no 360 or ps3 emulators can play games yet?
2) Anyone here knows to emulate a game you need to do many other things in the back ground.
_ a) decode the rom and handle the Opcodes
_ b) wrap ( translate ) them to the PC/macs architecture.
_ c) preform the same task as intended on the console, on the pc/mac. ( for each entity sound, gfx, ect.. )
_ d) handle the OS
_ e) handle the emulator
---- now for a console you read the Opcodes and preform the task. This is why people say you need a cpu 3 times the speed of the console.
3) cpu technology. Like SSE2 or MX, or anything that intels and AMDs have these consoles are now wising up to. The Cell cpu has technology of its own. So now we need to emulate that!
This is just for starters, I really don't know why you think this is incorrect or fail to see my points above. You may want to consider explain why feel it can be done first so we don'trun in to a heated battle but that is your choice.
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are people just to lazy to make one
There is only one thing that drives emulation. To prove it. a ps3 emulator is in the works and its painfully slow just as we predicted.
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Re: ? yeah, umm, no, thats incorrect
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Re: ? yeah, umm, no, thats incorrect
why? because, well, pc's can EASILY, max out a game, at 60 fps or more (depending on specs) without a single problem, and 3x the speed of a console cpu? there's already tons of cpu's with that kind of speed, plus, its not that hard, to overclock if you have suffiecent cooling, and as for your first question, umm, because there ARE, none that can even run the bios for 360, and then the ps3 one cant run games, and also, ive seen some other threads, where you guys say that anyone would be lucky just to get 5 fps emulating a 360 or ps3 game, which is just incorrect, as pc's, are WAY, WAY, more powerfull then consoles. (once again, depending on specs)
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Re: ? yeah, umm, no, thats incorrect
So did you not read, or did you not understand? I'll try it once more dramatically simplified for you. For a console to play a game it handles maybe 5 major tasks. For a computer to run a OS it handles more so the same. For a computer to emulate a console it must also handle the consoles 5 tasks. Then handle conversations, then take that data and pipe it though the OS so you can actually see it emulate. So we are talking about 15 tasks form CPU here, hence 3 times as fast.
wiki the cell processor some time.
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In May 2008, an Opteron- and PowerXCell 8i-based supercomputer, the IBM Roadrunner system, became the world's first system to achieve one petaFLOPS, and was the fastest computer in the world
This system uses it. The cell processor was one of the fasts chips in the world in 08. Granted not any longer. The CIA used the cell processor ( sony PS3's to be specific ) as they were the only system capable of the number crunching at the speed they needed. We would they use ps3 systems instead of a computer? Think about it... Its not all about speed, there are a lot more factors to a cpu that need to be considered and thus emulated. Today we still can not emulate this chip on the fastest intel chips. You need to get your facts in order.
two things stand in your way right now.
1) Your blatant disregard for comprehension and understanding.
2) No prof, thusly we have already proven our case.
You are running your month on a topic you clearly no nothing about. Not only do you not realize your ignorance is blissfully giving us all laughter and enjoyment, you clearly dont understand the information to carry on this argument. If it takes an overclocked intel system to run high-end games on dolphin, what on earth makes you think ps3 emulation is possible.
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Re: ? yeah, umm, no, thats incorrect
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Originally Posted by
ulaoulao
So did you not read, or did you not understand? I'll try it once more dramatically simplified for you. For a console to play a game it handles maybe 5 major tasks. For a computer to run a OS it handles more so the same. For a computer to emulate a console it must also handle the consoles 5 tasks. Then handle conversations, then take that data and pipe it though the OS so you can actually see it emulate. So we are talking about 15 tasks form CPU here, hence 3 times as fast.
wiki the cell processor some time.
This system uses it. The cell processor was one of the fasts chips in the world in 08. Granted not any longer. The CIA used the cell processor ( sony PS3's to be specific ) as they were the only system capable of the number crunching at the speed they needed. We would they use ps3 systems instead of a computer? Think about it... Its not all about speed, there are a lot more factors to a cpu that need to be considered and thus emulated. Today we still can not emulate this chip on the fastest intel chips. You need to get your facts in order.
two things stand in your way right now.
1) Your blatant disregard for comprehension and understanding.
2) No prof, thusly we have already proven our case.
You are running your month on a topic you clearly no nothing about. Not only do you not realize your ignorance is blissfully giving us all laughter and enjoyment, you clearly dont understand the information to carry on this argument. If it takes an overclocked intel system to run high-end games on dolphin, what on earth makes you think ps3 emulation is possible.
overlocked to run games on dolphin? BULL-SHIT, i can run it no problem WITHOUT, overclocking, on an i5-3330 3.0 ghz, AND, on integreated graphics (soon to be a amd radeon hd 7950) so if you have to use a high-end overclocked intel system to run dolphin, then your doing something wrong
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Re: ? yeah, umm, no, thats incorrect
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Originally Posted by
logoster
why? because, well, pc's can EASILY, max out a game, at 60 fps or more (depending on specs) without a single problem, and 3x the speed of a console cpu? there's already tons of cpu's with that kind of speed, plus, its not that hard, to overclock if you have suffiecent cooling, and as for your first question, umm, because there ARE, none that can even run the bios for 360, and then the ps3 one cant run games, and also, ive seen some other threads, where you guys say that anyone would be lucky just to get 5 fps emulating a 360 or ps3 game, which is just incorrect, as pc's, are WAY, WAY, more powerfull then consoles. (once again, depending on specs)
How can a person be so stupid? PC CPUs have their own technology and architecture, PS3 and X360 CPUs on the other hand, have completely different technologies. And this technology isn't easily emulated. If it were so easy to emulate, wouldn't there already be a PS3, and a X360 emulator? I've said what I have to say.
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Re: ? yeah, umm, no, thats incorrect
LOL, so you can't win the initial battle now you on to another?
Perhaps you failed to comprehend again?
I said "high-end games" not games.
I'ts clearly spelled out on the dolphin web site?
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Category 1: Extremely Fast
When overclocked these cpus can run nearly any game at fullspeed even with LLE audio. Without overclocking most games will still run well with LLE audio.
-Intel Core i7 Extreme Edition
-Intel Core i7
-Intel Core i5
Again we are talking 99% here. Point being if we have yet to perfect dolphin and pcsx2, its going to be some time before we get to play ps3 games. You can whine all you want but in the end your only achievement is whining. Ps3 and xbox 360 emulation will not be here any time soon. This is the current state of things and this is our decree. Unless you have an author held at gun point or some grand army of coders that can prove us wrong take it and leave it. Because what you are proving to us so far is that you dont know how emulation works. In a way you have a much better chance of seeing a ps3 emulator as xbox never really grew in to much in the way of emulation. Though that Cell processor is not going to be an easy mark to achieve.
Historically you will see emulation evolve is steps. debug, few home brew games, some games many times specific games fully, then comes sound, then speed. Most of this comes from learning how to read the CPU operation codes. This is where the ps3 project is now and there is lots to learn yet. You may see a few games pop up here in there in the next 2 years but yes at 5-10 fps just like every other emulator. You more then likely will not have sound for another 2 years. Normally light games became playable at this time. Also things depend on if its LL or HL emulation. HL uses cheats to speed things up but suffers in accuracy. Lets just be thankful that a teat is trying it.
testmachine, he does not understand CPU technology. He has proven that by his lack of commenting in the matter. He is just measuring by speeds. Kinda like a game or 3d engine game tester would.
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Re: ? yeah, umm, no, thats incorrect
fine, dont believe me, whatever
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Re: ? yeah, umm, no, thats incorrect
Believe ? This was about a belief. Actually that make a lot more sense now. Many of us believe in things that can not be proven.
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ok, im sorry if i acted mean or anything, its just, i really wish there was one, because it would be nice not to have to wait for a pc release of gta v to play it, but i still think that you guys do underestimate the power of a pc somewhat, not even close to as much as before, but pc shouldnt have as much of a problem as you guys are saying it will
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Re: ? yeah, umm, no, thats incorrect
Hey man its cool. I can understand the desire, hell you should see my friggen set up. Most people dont know they are playing a computer.
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you guys do underestimate the power of a pc somewhat
Its not the "power" that is the issue, its the core technology. If you want to get in to it, in detail, I'd be happy to help you understand it. Think of it this way, a CPU has op codes ( say 1200 ), now an emulator has to figure out what each one means and re-engineer it. Then each technology in that chip has to be done and there can be like 100 core techs. So you need to decode 100 of each and of them, their op codes. Whereas the console is pre-programmed to understand them. AND THAT IS JUST THE CPU. Now on to the sound and GPU. My point is there is a lot more to emulating then you think.
I gather you are a game dev, or familiar with game engines? ( just a guess ). then you know how DX works. Its a ton of functions that preform something. Well if you drill down to the CHIP abstraction of the video card you will find these are op codes that tell the hardware what to do. So If I wanted to make a GL wrapper, I would need to have the wrapper translate each function in to GL. Now how many functions is that? Then after all of that I need to preform the screen drawing like I would on the DX chip. This is sort of the same concept but on a much smaller scale.
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Re: ? yeah, umm, no, thats incorrect
Heck, that was the "largest" thread I had stump upon.
If one can make X360 or PS3 games playable on PC, we should see (fully working) Xbox emulator come out by now.
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Re: ? yeah, umm, no, thats incorrect
Oh yeah totally forgot this. Bsnes or higan. This is a snes emulator, the first emulator that I know of that claims 100% accuracy with no bugs. Thus, far no one has proved this wrong. Now lets take a looky here?
higan requires A Core 2 Duo processor or higher
snes CPU 16-bit 65c816 Ricoh 5A22 3.58 MHz
hmmm...
Ricoh 5A22 - from wiki -
The CPU as a whole employs a variable-speed system bus, with bus access times determined by the memory location accessed. The bus runs at 3.58 MHz for non-access cycles and when accessing Bus B and most internal registers, and either 2.68 or 3.58 MHz when accessing Bus A. It runs at 1.79 MHz only when accessing the controller port serial-access registers.[1] It works at approximately 1.5 MIPS and has a theoretical peak of 1.79 million 16-bit adds per second.
Core 2 Duo T5600
Dhrystone: 22305 MIPS (+34.8%)
Whetstone: 5547/8171 FPU/iSSE2 MFLOPS (+8.9%/+24.0%)
ah, just ran in to this by a coincident. I believe this was written by byuu's the author of bnes. Employ a grammar school concept called comprehension and you will get it.
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/0...es-emulator/1/
Props to some of the quote I liked in that article.
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These days, the most dominant emulators are Nestopia and Nintendulator, requiring 800MHz and 1.6GHz, respectively, to attain full speed. The need for speed isn't because the emulators aren't well optimized: it's because they are a far more faithful recreation of the original NES hardware in software.
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We wouldn't round pi down to 3 simply because irrational numbers are inconvenient, right?
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The most common misconception in gauging an emulator's performance is that you can't simply look at the clock rate of the primary processor.
He obviously meant can't but in his article he says can.
now two quotes on "a perfect digital form of the exact original hardware design"
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To run Pong at about 5-10fps, DICE requires a 3GHz processor. Yes, you read that right: no computer processor at this time that can run Pong at the circuit level at full speed. It's not that DICE is a slow program; indeed, it is very well optimized. It's that there is enormous overhead to simulating every last transistor propagation delay.
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As much as I would like every emulator to support every last transistor propagation delay, in truth this simply isn't possible. It becomes fair to say that we will likely never see hardware capable of emulating an N64 at this level at playable framerates within our lifetimes.
For the readers that dont get it, This article is written in layman's terms but many of us are just too lazy so, here is the over all. The emulation you see today is done by hacks and tricks to appear as though its emulating. In reality its not, not even close. Though it serves its purpose, to allow "you" to play games. simulating every last transistor propagation delay will never be possible in our life time. So authors do tricks like HLE. Now Bsnes is the only emulator to use one form of a trick and the rest pure accurate emulation. As much as he would like to write a transistor to transistor emulator its not possible. So he skips up to the chip level and start emulating from there.
