Should you update the graphics Adapter on a 4 year old computer??

[Crazy!]

Hiya people, I've been a member for a while but I haven't posted for AGES, I doubt you'll remember when I first showed up going on about graphics Cards & Stuff...! :$ Anyway, I haven't really had time to decide and actually buy one STILL, I just can't decide and another that's holding me back is the above question. I've read in places that it's not advisable to upgrade graphics adapters etc on computers that are about 3+ years old. My computer is about 4 years old and I haven't upgraded it at all since I got it, the computers been used alot since we've purchased it.

I would like to upgrade because it will fulfill my gaming experiences alot, in terms of emulating games and when it comes to playing more demanding PC games with more RAM requirements etc.

Here are my basic computer Specs:

Windows XP {Home}

Graphics Adapter: Onboard S3 Pro Savage DDR

CPU: Intel Celeron/Pentium 4 (2.0 GHz)

If you need more info tell me. :x

[Psycho_Symantic]

as long as you get a card that your motherboard supports, youll be fine.
also make sure you have enough ram to support the card as well

[Crazy!]

Oh but how on earth would I find out if my motherboard supports it, and about RAM, I thought the graphics card came with built in memory (RAM) to enhance graphics. So MY system has to have enough RAM as it stands now, how would I find that out?? **Thick...doooing!*

Thanks! :)

Edit: My mother Board name is Epox EP-P4MKI-S

Motherboard chipset: VIA VT8751A Apollo P4M266A

Memory Slots {RAM} - DRAM Slot #1 256 MB (PC2700 DDR SDRAM)

I got this info from EVERSEST Pro, I think it's all right.

[Jale]

By the look of your integrated graphics, your motherboard is a Biostar. All you need to know if your motherboard has an AGP port. It doesn't matter if your AGP port is 4X or 8X, either way you can still plug any 8X video card into a 4X slot with the difference that its bandwidth will be reduced to 4X, but I don't think the difference is noticeable. I'm pretty sure your AGP port runs at 4X, because you said it's 4 years old.

In other words, you can plug any AGP card in your 4 years old computer, from the oldie Radeon 7000 to the almighty Radeon X1950 (ATI Cards). Also, nVidia will release an AGP version of its famous DirectX 10 card GeForce 8800.

[Crazy!]

Thanks! You're a wicked help! I feel at ease now! Simple.

I think I'll get the Sapphire RADEON 9600XT. It's very affordable and seems to be a very good card!

[Psycho_Symantic]

ya i guess i should of been a bit more clear about what i meant by motherboard supporting the card.

as for ram all video cards have a minimum that they will work with, just like any other hardware.
and it looks like the card you chose requires 128mb of ram. honestly id upgrade the ram to at least 512mb.

your system is already running at 50% the addition of that video card will only cause it to have display problems (it happened to me with my radeon 9800 pro)

[Jale]

as for ram all video cards have a minimum that they will work with, just like any other hardware.
and it looks like the card you chose requires 128mb of ram. honestly id upgrade the ram to at least 512mb.
That's not true, unless it has the TurboCache technology developed by nVidia to boost a 256 MB card to 512 MB, which requires at least 1 GB of system RAM. But that's not the case. Every video card have their own RAM, for example, my old Radeon 9200 being 128 MB of video RAM requires at least 64 MB of system RAM.

Anyway, it's always a good idea to read the system requirements of the video card before buying one. Make sure it meets the following characteristics:

Video RAM should be at least 128 MB.
Buy either ATI (Radeon) or nVidia (GeForce) chipsets since they're the most dominant in market. It doesn't matter if the card has been manufactured by Sapphire, MSI or whatever, just make sure they're powered by one of those two chipsets.
Buy what you need. Don't waste money in a high-end video card if you're not gonna use it after all, but don't buy a low-end either, since you won't get an acceptable performance in modern games.

[Psycho_Symantic]

That's not true, unless it has the TurboCache technology developed by nVidia to boost a 256 MB card to 512 MB, which requires at least 1 GB of system RAM. But that's not the case. Every video card have their own RAM, for example, my old Radeon 9200 being 128 MB of video RAM requires at least 64 MB of system RAM.
im not sure what your refuting here, can you be a bit more clear

[Jale]

What I mean is that when you have integrated graphics (no video card), RAM is shared and works as video memory. For example, let's say you have 256 MB of RAM installed on your system and you've assigned 32 MB as video memory. With this you'll have 224 MB of system RAM (256 MB of total system RAM - 32 MB of shared RAM = 224 MB of total system RAM).

With video cards that's not the case, since they have their own video memory modules. It doesn't matter if the card has 256 or 512 MB of video memory, you'll have your complete 256 MB of system RAM for other tasks and the video card will operate with its own video memory.

For TurboCache (nVIDIA), read here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbocache) and for HyperMemory (ATI), read here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperMemory).

[Crazy!]

Hiya, I'm finding this stuff complicated to be honest, I'm understanding butters! i think. I've looked on my Everest software and it says that my System Memory is 224MB and that my Display Adapter Memory is 32MB. So I'm guessing that means the onboards graphics is using 32MB of the original system memory to run, because the original total memory is 256MB.

So when I get a card I have to make sure that it will work in a computer with an original system memory of 256MB {For my computer, that is!?, is that right??}

Because as Butters! said the card comes with it's own memory so if I get a card with 256MB of memory does that mean that my total computer memory will be 512MB (256 x 2)? And I'm right in saying that my onboard graphics is using 32MB of the original system memory to run not memory of it's own? I'm getting it all, I think, I'm not getting whether I have to make sure my system has 128MB, 256MB etc of memory beforehand or not.

...???

EDIT: Look at these cards for example which card would be best to buy do yah think!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SAPPHIRE-ATI-Radeon-9250-256MB-AGP-8x-Graphics-card_W0QQitemZ230115684587QQihZ013QQcategoryZ3762Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem - SAPPHIRE ATI Radeon 9250 256MB AGP 8x

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sapphire-RADEON-9600XT-256-MB-AGP-Graphic-Card_W0QQitemZ260106235388QQihZ016QQcategoryZ3762Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem - Sapphire RADEON 9600XT (256 MB) AGP

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Asus-6600-TD-256MB-AGP-8x-nVidia-GeForce-Graphics-Card_W0QQitemZ300102113242QQihZ020QQcategoryZ3762Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem - Asus 6600 TD 256MB AGP 8x nVidia GeForce
If there's a slightly more advanced card which is affordable, tell us! :)

[Psycho_Symantic]

With video cards that's not the case, since they have their own video memory modules. It doesn't matter if the card has 256 or 512 MB of video memory, you'll have your complete 256 MB of system RAM for other tasks and the video card will operate with its own video memory.
im not saying that video cards use the physical memory like onboard video devices, what im saying is they have minimum system requirements that they will work with.
example
the radeon 9250 requires 64mb of ram and a pentium 2 or higher
http://ati.amd.com/products/radeon9200/radeon9200/specs.html
9600xt requires 128mb of ram.
http://ati.amd.com/products/radeon9600/radeon9600pro/specs.html


Hiya, I'm finding this stuff complicated to be honest, I'm understanding butters! i think. I've looked on my Everest software and it says that my System Memory is 224MB and that my Display Adapter Memory is 32MB. So I'm guessing that means the onboards graphics is using 32MB of the original system memory to run, because the original total memory is 256MB.
right on the money

So when I get a card I have to make sure that it will work in a computer with an original system memory of 256MB {For my computer, that is!?, is that right??}
you have to make sure that you have that amount of memory free which you most likely dont considering xp will use everything you have, plus other software running in the background, other devices like your router uses memory as well.
upgrade your system memory first to no less then 512mb then get a card.

cards do have their own memory but again they also have system requirements as well.

also with the cards the cards memory isnt the only thing thats important, the gpu (graphical processesing unit, the cards processor) also plays a huge role in how these cards perform.
so a radeon 9600 with 128mb of Vram (video ram) will actually out perform a radeon 9250 with 256mb of Vram
the higher the clock speed of the proc the faster it can push the data.
if you really want nice performance in an agp card go for the radeon 9800 pro, once you upgrade your ram

[Crazy!]

Yeah but most cards will work well with the RAM I already have [256] won't they, how would I upgrade my RAM, and is it really nessecary?? I dont want to have to upgrade RAM and Graphics. Anyway thanks for explaining everything I will have to give this some thought...

???

[Jale]

Hiya, I'm finding this stuff complicated to be honest, I'm understanding butters! i think. I've looked on my Everest software and it says that my System Memory is 224MB and that my Display Adapter Memory is 32MB. So I'm guessing that means the onboards graphics is using 32MB of the original system memory to run, because the original total memory is 256MB.

So when I get a card I have to make sure that it will work in a computer with an original system memory of 256MB {For my computer, that is!?, is that right??}
256 MB seems to be enough for any card, so you don't have to worry about.


Because as Butters! said the card comes with it's own memory so if I get a card with 256MB of memory does that mean that my total computer memory will be 512MB (256 x 2)?
Wrong. The video memory of your video card will never act as system RAM. When you plug your video card your system memory won't be 224 MB anymore, it will be your complete 256 MB of RAM, because the 32 MB assigned to your onboard graphics won't need them anymore.


And I'm right in saying that my onboard graphics is using 32MB of the original system memory to run not memory of it's own? I'm getting it all, I think, I'm not getting whether I have to make sure my system has 128MB, 256MB etc of memory beforehand or not.
You said you have 224 MB of system RAM and 32 MB of shared RAM for video.

224 + 32 = 256 MB.

That means you have 256 MB, but your onboard graphics is taking 32 MB of that memory to work. That's why you have 224 MB instead of 256 MB.


EDIT: Look at these cards for example which card would be best to buy do yah think!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SAPPHIRE-ATI-Radeon-9250-256MB-AGP-8x-Graphics-card_W0QQitemZ230115684587QQihZ013QQcategoryZ3762Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem - SAPPHIRE ATI Radeon 9250 256MB AGP 8x

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sapphire-RADEON-9600XT-256-MB-AGP-Graphic-Card_W0QQitemZ260106235388QQihZ016QQcategoryZ3762Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem - Sapphire RADEON 9600XT (256 MB) AGP

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Asus-6600-TD-256MB-AGP-8x-nVidia-GeForce-Graphics-Card_W0QQitemZ300102113242QQihZ020QQcategoryZ3762Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem - Asus 6600 TD 256MB AGP 8x nVidia GeForce
If there's a slightly more advanced card which is affordable, tell us! :)
Stay away from the 9250 one. You can choose between the 9600XT and the 6600TD. I'm not sure about the power of those cards. I'll do some research and let you know.

EDIT: I've never heard of the 6600TD, but according to the description given on eBay, it's very similar to the 9600XT, with the difference that the 9600XT has more memory bandwith (9.6 GHz) than the 6600TD (6.4 GHz).

[Crazy!]

Thanks Butters! no offense but you've made so much more sense to me than the other guy! :p Yeah I got that shared memory thing, the onboard graphics is using 32MB of the system RAM to run, but when I get a new Graphics Adapter the RAM stolen from the original sysem RAM will be restored to it's original place {with System RAM.} The graphics card has seperate memory which focuses on enhancing 3D Applications and other media files etc! yeah do some research on the cards I've put up that'll really help! I'm gonna purchase one soon, I think I've done enough faffing about! :D

EDIT: I'm certain most cards will act much better than onboard S3 Pro Savage DDR graphics anyway. I want my graphics card to run N64 & PS1 Games {Emulation} almost perfectly and to play modern PC games atleast at a reasonable/good rate. Alot of N64 Games have graphical glitches i.e

Conkers Bad Fur Day - Is REALLY slow and conkers head is white etc.

Donkey Kong & Super Mario 64..among others - Are REALLY slow in places and sometimes tend to crash my computer because of the tug of memory.

Banjo Kazooie - SLOW in places

Banjo Tooie - Has white graphical glitches and is VERY slow.

Most games have graphical glitches more severe than others but most are reasonably playable.

PS1 Games - Most of them actually work well, I've only got 6 games. There are minor glitches on Tekken 3 & Crash Bandicoot 1 etc.

PC Games - Simpsons Hit & Run - Runs REALLY slowly
Breath of Fire V - Runs a little bit slowly on full res.
Some current Football Manager Games runs a little bit slowly.

Will most of these cards get rid of these problems?

[Jale]

The S3 Graphics is an ass integrated chip. In fact, it's the worst onbard graphics chip I've ever seen in my life, even scrolling up or down a window is a pain in the ass.

About those games:

Conkers Bad Fur Day - This game has low framerates even on the real system, but you won't see Conker's head white anymore. You'll still see some graphic glitches such as non-emulated motion blur, but that's a plugin issue, not the video card's.

Donkey Kong & Super Mario 64..among others - They work perfectly, at least Super Mario 64. Donkey Kong 64 has a core glitch when you climb a palm tree it goes off-screen.

Banjo Kazooie - Works perfectly.

Banjo Tooie - Works perfectly, but has core issues (emulation crash).

PS1 Games - Most of them work perfectly. You will experience some graphic issues with Final Fantasy games if you don't choose a good plugin.

PC Games - Simpsons Hit & Run - Never played it, so I don't know.
Breath of Fire V - Never played it, but I think those cards will run fine on high resolutions, even with anti-aliasing enabled.
Football games, it depends. FIFA World Cup Germany 2006 runs a little slow on my X1600, because of the excesive crowd in the background and high detailed models at the same time on screen.

[Crazy!]

Thanks, so most emulated games will work perfectly, but the emulators genuinely need more development to perfect other minor glitches? Great and how will most modern PC games fair on of those cards or the most advanced of the bunch?..sorry for the BOMBARDMENT of question! lol :p

Is this your card?? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SAPPHIRE-ATI-RADEON-X1600-PRO-AGP-8X_W0QQitemZ280104977903QQihZ018QQcategoryZ3762QQs sPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Is this card better than all of the others I've stated before because it has higher memory/Clock Speed?

Thanks! :D

[Psycho_Symantic]

Thanks Butters! no offense but you've made so much more sense to me than the other guy!
ok then understand this.
niether you nor butters is taking into account that other things are using the system memory.
so when you install a new card your only going to max out your system memory.

also if you dont know how to install ram, how in the hell are you going to install a video card.

oh well i wash my hands of this, but i do suggest you do ALOT of homework about video cards before you do any of this

[Crazy!]

I'm am sorry I didn't want to offend you, as you can tell I'm a bit duh! when it comes to this! lol I think I'm understadning you, my system memory at present is 256MB so are you saying I can't buy a graphics card which has more than 256MB on it? And about installing a new card I've heard it's simple enough, I can figure out how to plug it into the AGP slot and all cards come with instruction manuals and the installaton CD. I'll be fine when it comes to installing the card and drivers, but I just wanted to figure this out first...

[Jale]

ok then understand this.
niether you nor butters is taking into account that other things are using the system memory.
so when you install a new card your only going to max out your system memory.

also if you dont know how to install ram, how in the hell are you going to install a video card.

oh well i wash my hands of this, but i do suggest you do ALOT of homework about video cards before you do any of this
That's right. You need to study a bit about the components of your motherboard before installing anything on it.

[Psycho_Symantic]

I'm am sorry I didn't want to offend you, as you can tell I'm a bit duh! when it comes to this! lol I think I'm understadning you, my system memory at present is 256MB so are you saying I can't buy a graphics card which has more than 256MB on it? And about installing a new card I've heard it's simple enough, I can figure out how to plug it into the AGP slot and all cards come with instruction manuals and the installaton CD. I'll be fine when it comes to installing the card and drivers, but I just wanted to figure this out first...
no im saying that these cards have system requirements that must be met.
your system barely meets them, so your going to run into problems.

upgrade your ram first, that should be a priority.
next check the wattage on your power supply.
open your case look at the sticker on the power supply itll tell you somewhere on there how many watts it is.
if its 350 or lower youll have to upgrade that as well

[TheCreator]

Judging from the spec of your PC your going to get a lot of bottleneck with that 2 ghz cpu. An x1600 pro could be a bit too good, that's not to say it won't work but the cpu will bring down the framerates that card can do. An x1600pro, or sometihng like an x800gto, is the highest you should get.

[Crazy!]

Wow! so almost everything about my computer is incapable of supporting even a decent-ish graphics card. My cpu's a problem, RAM, power supply and even my motherboard! I think I'll just forget about it for the time being it seems like WAY to much hassle, I thought it'd be simpler. Butters was making it sound more simple and less hassle... I'm miserable now...:dry: :(

[Psycho_Symantic]

Wow! so almost everything about my computer is incapable of supporting even a decent-ish graphics card. My cpu's a problem, RAM, power supply and even my motherboard! I think I'll just forget about it for the time being it seems like WAY to much hassle, I thought it'd be simpler. Butters was making it sound more simple and less hassle... I'm miserable now...:dry: :(
i never said your power supply wouldnt support a new card, i said check it to make sure.
also 2ghz is fine for a decent card like a 9800 pro (i have 2.26ghz, and my shit flies) the only thing i can see is that you need for ram and thats realitivily cheap and easy as hell to install

[Jale]

RAM is fine. My brother has a 256 MB computer and a Radeon X1600 and runs very good (well, he has 512 MB now). The only bad thing is that you'll need at least 512 MB for modern games. I think that's what Psycho is trying to tell you, but for emulators such as Project64 it's fine.

Don't worry about the power supply, but make sure it's over 250 W (most of them are of 250-300 W). Mine, for instance, is 250 W.

EDIT: I'm gonna make a video tutorial tomorrow to show you how to install an AGP video card.

[Crazy!]

Hiya peeps - @ Psycho: So that's cool, I'm confused...anyway so my CPU's ok and the only thing that you can see that might be a problem is my 256MB of RAM, right I'll consider getting more RAM. Thanks.

@ Butters: I do have a feeling my 256MB of RAM will be ok for me I'm not too fussed with playing the current PC titles (last year & new) just more modern games than my computer can cope with at the mo and to play newer games more reasonably. For example with the RAM I have at the mo would I be able to play a game like Battlefield 2 or Halo 1/2 at a good/reasonable rate?? And I'm happy about the emulators working better!

My Power Supply is {I just checked} - 300W So that's ok too.

And thanks Butters! that tutorial will help, even though I think I've got quite a good idea on how to plugin a new card, but still do it, it'll confirm my thoughts! :) Thanks to both Psycho & Butters :D

EDIT: Look at this card also (The card you're mentioning...) will I be able to insert this into my computer without installing anymore RAM and for the game to work well in my computer??

Look --->>> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sapphire-RADEON-X1600-PRO-512-MB-AGP-Graphic-Card-NEW_W0QQitemZ230118307503QQihZ013QQcategoryZ3762QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

If someone could just tell/suggest to me what the best card there is available that will drastically upgrade my system and will work and be compatible with my computer at it's current configuration, I'd really appreciate it.

[Psycho_Symantic]

My Power Supply is {I just checked} - 300W So that's ok too.
unfortunatly not, alot of these cards plug directly into the power supply (through one of the molex cables) so you need to check the power requirements of the cards.
the 1600 pro you posted is a nice card but your power supply wont handle it, the card requires a 420watt psu
http://www.diamondmm.com/X1600AGP512.php
i dont know why butters is only telling you what you want to hear. but as a person who has numerous builds under his belt your system needs some upgrades before you can even think about getting some gaming parts.
the ram weve discussed

but that psu (power supply unit) is piss poor it needs to be upgraded (unless you go with a much older card that doesnt plug into the psu)

[Crazy!]

Oh ok...that's dissapointing, I'll have to go with an older card then, do you know a card that will upgrade from onboard S3 ProSavage DDR quite a bit but will also work in my system as it is now? (Best buy)?? Thanks

EDIT: Also to Psycho, I didn't know that these cards plug in to the PSU, thanks for that but as I understand the card I want is a card that plugs into my AGP slot and will work with my 256MB of RAM, Cpu & also PSU as it is now. Thanks :)

All info:

Mother board Name - Epox EP-P4MKI-S (VIA)
Memory Slots - 256MB of system RAM {32MB Shared with onboard Graphics} - 2 other slots available
Graphics: S3 Pro Savage DDR {Onboard}
PSU- Peak Load 300W
CPU - Intel Celeron 2.00Ghz
AGP compatible

Thanks!

[Psycho_Symantic]

Oh ok...that's dissapointing, I'll have to go with an older card then, do you know a card that will upgrade from onboard S3 ProSavage DDR quite a bit but will also work in my system as it is now? (Best buy)?? Thanks

EDIT: Also to Psycho, I didn't know that these cards plug in to the PSU, thanks for that but as I understand the card I want is a card that plugs into my AGP slot and will work with my 256MB of RAM, Cpu & also PSU as it is now. Thanks :)

All info:

Mother board Name - Epox EP-P4MKI-S (VIA)
Memory Slots - 256MB of system RAM {32MB Shared with onboard Graphics} - 2 other slots available
Graphics: S3 Pro Savage DDR {Onboard}
PSU- Peak Load 300W
CPU - Intel Celeron 2.00Ghz
AGP compatible

Thanks!
your cpu is fine, your ram needs upgraded, your psu needs upgraded your motherboard is fine.
as your computer stands now, it wont work because the ram and psu are holding you back.
once those are taking care of then get your monster card.

you can get a 500watt psu for about 30 pounds maybe less
and an extra 256mb of ram for about the same.

also check the links i posted in the other reply and youll see what im talking about

[Jale]

@ Butters: I do have a feeling my 256MB of RAM will be ok for me I'm not too fussed with playing the current PC titles (last year & new) just more modern games than my computer can cope with at the mo and to play newer games more reasonably. For example with the RAM I have at the mo would I be able to play a game like Battlefield 2 or Halo 1/2 at a good/reasonable rate?? And I'm happy about the emulators working better!
I've ran Halo with my X1600 at 1024x768 with Anti-Aliasing and I'm satisfied with it, but I can't say the same with Halo 2. First, it requires Windows Vista. Second, your RAM memory is not enough to run either Halo 2 or Windows Vista. And third, Halo 2 is a DirectX 10 game and the X1600 is a DirectX 9 card. At this point I don't know if the game will also support DirectX 9 rendering.

You need at least 512 MB as a minimum requirement for any modern game. The same goes for Battlefield 2, but this one doesn't require Vista to play, but a good amount of RAM is a must.

Psycho, my PSU is 250W and it accepts the card just fine. I've done stressful tests and it went all good. Plus, the video card box/manual didn't say anything about how much power it needs, it only says this:

"3. If the VGA card requires extra power supply, please make sure the power connector is connected with power from the power supply unit".

And the warning notes below are referred to avoid BIOS flashing, remove serial number, etc. Nothing to do with power supply.


http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/3871/psuvv1.jpg

[Jale]

EDIT: I'm gonna make a video tutorial tomorrow to show you how to install an AGP video card.
This weekend now. I don't have time.

[Crazy!]

Thanks Butters, that's ok about tutorial, and thanks for explaining about the games, so the main thing I have to worry about is RAM, I'm gonna consider buying some and slotting it in my comp, and then getting a new card. And about your power supply if the card works in yours and your supply is less than mine then...:confused:

And to Psycho thanks for going through all of that, so the main things are RAM and PSU and about 30pounds each *WoW*, thats really cheap, I might actually consider getting both {but I'm out of work at the mo so...}but it's just about installing them both etc...:confused: :p haha *Clueless, moi!*.. I'm sure I'll be fine...:(

Also another thing...can someone suggest a card that will work well {best} in my computer as it is now and a card that will be best to get when I've upgraded RAM to 512MB and my PSU, and to make sure they are affordable enough {Maximum budget price of 65pounds}

EDIT: sorry I know I write SO bloody much! lol anyway here's another game I'd love to play, it's Broken Sword 4, I've looked at game requirements and the only improvement I can see I'd have to make is getting atleast a 128MB shader model compat card compat with my PSU and the game would work fine is this right, look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_Sword_4..just curious! :x

Thanks 2 ya both! mmwwwwaaaa! xThanks

[Psycho_Symantic]

with your current system that 9250 should work just fine.
itll also allow for better performance for emulation.

if you need any help installing the card you know where to go

[Jale]

The 9250 is too old and it's DirectX 8. It's great for emulation, but you'll suffer with PC gaming. That's why I told you to stay away from the 9250.

[Psycho_Symantic]

hes asking what to use for his current setup until he can afford a better card.
and i think youll agree that anything is better then onboard video

[Crazy!]

Thanks both of u guys! I might buy that card for the time being then after a while I should upgrade RAM, PSU and card for ultimate performance! :D I'm glad to hear emulation works great and I'm sure more PC games will work better with it than what I have at the mo {LIKE psycho said anything is better!}. But I'm sure I'll upgrade all things I need PSU, RAM for when I get a better card than can handle much more modern games at a good standard! Thanks peeps, another small detail...:happy: About the motherboard, I read earlier that I should do some study on it to see what type of memory, PSU and card I can attach to it, how on earth would I find this out!..sorry all of the seriously dumb questions, but the more info I've got the better!

Thanks boys! ;)

[Jale]

But at least get a 9600. It's cheap and has DirectX 9 support. The 9250 has DirectX 8 and that isn't nice :confused:

[Crazy!]

thanks for that! I will, if I don't find something even better and affordable! YAY! haha :p

EDIT:

Is the 9600 XT AGP 256MB DDR or the 9600 PRO any better than the original 9600 or is there only 9600 XT, can I get either of these ones do'ya think?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ATI-Radeon-9600-XT-256MB-DDR-AGP-RRP-70_W0QQitemZ130102474553QQihZ003QQcategoryZ3762QQs sPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Radeon 9600XT 256MB
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Peak-RADEON-9600-PRO-256-MB-AGP-Graphic-Card_W0QQitemZ250104767192QQihZ015QQcategoryZ3762Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Radeon 9600 pro 256MB

Or is there no difference?..

[Jale]

The Radeon 9600 XT is faster than the Radeon 9600 Pro, that means it's more expensive. The Radeon 9600 XT's performance is somewhat close (not very) to the Radeon X1600 (same core speed, slower memory speed and a much slower memory bandwidth), but it has older technology such as older Shader Model compared to the X1600. The 9600 was one of the first DirectX 9 cards available from ATI. The Radeon 9600 Pro is much slower than the 9600 XT, but it won't be a problem with emulation (I have been using a 9200 SE, the slowest of its series, and I could play Project64 at 1024x768 without any problem).

Radeon 9600: Shader Model 2.0.
Radeon X1600: Shader Model 3.0.

There's no need to worry about Shader Models, since a vast majority of current games use Shader Model 2.0 such as Half-Life 2. The only game I've played that uses Shader Model 3.0 was "S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Shadow of Chernobyl", but this game required an Intel Core 2 Duo processor and I couldn't play it. I'm not sure if "FarCry" uses Shader Model 3.0 though.

For emulation, it's a great card. Jabo's Direct3D8 uses Shader Models lower than 2.0 (1.4 probably).

Be sure to check the prices before buying one. Anyway, I recommend you to upgrade your system RAM before buying a video card.

[Crazy!]

Thanks, I'm gonna upgrade my RAM first when I find the right one, which I'll post on the 'Questions about RAM' topic and I might also come on here ask a question or two about the installation process on that other topic two so BEWARE!! haha :p

So you're saying both the Radeon 9600 XT & Radeon X1600 are better than the PRO one but the Radeon X1600 being the overall best and having the latest shader Models...but I'll probably go for the 9600XT one because the other one requires a 350W PSU. Thanks again. ;)

Also I've just looked around and found another card called Radeon 9800XT I'm guessing this is even better than the 9600XT but I can't find full system requirements for it i.e power supply Wattage etc, maybe I could buy this after installing another 256MB of RAM??

[Jale]

I forgot to mention I was comparing with the X1600 Pro, which is slower than the X1600 XT.

Oh, and about the PSU, there's no problem about it, I think, since the plug has a standard voltage. I think those plugs are composed of two 5V lines (one positive and one negative) and two Ground lines. It's the same for all power supplies.

I'm not an expert on electronic stuff, but I just did what the manual said. The manual didn't say anything about an specific voltage, so I just plugged it in and let it run.

[Crazy!]

ok I'll have to decide between a Radeon X1600, Radeon 9600XT & Radeon 9800XT...So yeah I mentioned this last card on the last thread after editing it, I found this card and assumed it was even more powerful than the 9600XT.. is it? and can my psu handle it as it is now {300W}?

And also is the 9800XT better than the X1600 or just as good??

More & more quezzies, I know! ;)

[Jale]

The 9800 XT has a slower core speed than the X1600, but it has a lot more memroy bandwidth than the X1600.

[Jale]

To understand how fast ATI graphic cards are, they're schemed like this:

High-end (expensive/powerful): **8** and **9** (9800, X1800, X1950, etc).
Mainstream (mid-range/balanced): **7**, **6** and **5** (9500, 9600, X700, X1600, etc).
Low-end (cheap/low performance): **4**, **3**, 9***, 8*** and 7*** series (9200, 9250, X300, etc).

The difference between the 9000 series and the X1000 series is the Shader Model. The X1000 series are always Shader Model 3.0, while the 9000 series are Shader Model 2.0, 2.0a and 2.0b depending of the model.

[Crazy!]

The 9800 XT has a slower core speed than the X1600, but it has a lot more memroy bandwidth than the X1600.

So which do you suggest...?? *I know I need a good punch!* haha :p

And thanks for that chart about low-high end cards I'm getting much more of an idea, it's probably gonna be either 9800XT or X1600 after I get more RAM! Thanks.;)

[Jale]

The 9800XT is a high end video card and an expensive one (well, being a Shader Model 2.0 card makes it a little cheaper). If you can't afford it, consider getting any mid-range (mainstream) cards (see table above).

[Crazy!]

the 9800XT only requires a 300W PSU, great, I could have got this card but it requires a AGP 3.0 Config and mines 2.0 soo...http://hisdigitals.com/html/9800xt.htm

But I've also looked at the X1600 and it requires a 350W psu and mines 300W, I just want to get the full power of the card, but I don't kmow again now...hmmmph!:( *I'm so undecisive, I might have upgrade my PSU aswell then)


EDIT: I've also read about the 9600XT and this card requires over 300W psu, look here on the description...http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ATI-RADEON-9600XT-256-MB-AGP-Graphic-Card_W0QQitemZ230115737078QQihZ013QQcategoryZ3762Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

What to do???....:(

So the cards X1600 & 9600XT both need over 300W according to these sources..hmmmph, that's really annoyed me and I can't use the other one {9800XT} cos it needs a 3.0 AGP config!!:(

[Jale]

Then get a lower card or try getting GeForce cards.

[Crazy!]

There's so many to pick from I just cant decide what the best one will be after I've upgraded RAM, I'm gonna be looking for a while, when I've finally found one which I think will be good, I'll show ya! :)

[Crazy!]

I've made a decision after a bit of 'research' almost anything higher doesn't work good with my PSU and this card sounds good & affordable, the description says that the card can play games like Battlefield 2, Half Life 1/2 and Counter Strike and all games are reasonably demanding and are really wicked graphically...I've chosen the: Inno3D GeForce 6600 256MB AGP Graphics Card

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=015&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=250104720766&rd=1&rd=1

And it looks like I'm gonna get it cheap, I think this card is old, but not too old and can cope well with alot of modern games. I've asked the seller if it will work well with my psu, I've looked on net and it said it would but I just wanna make double sure! sooo.. this might be the one! I probably won't come on here for installation enquiries cos I've got the motherboard manual which explains how install everything, thanks for everyones help on this!! Bye!! :0 :p ;)

[Jale]

The 6600 is a mid-range card and its features are:

500 MHz core speed.
1 GHz memory speed.
16 GB/s peak memory bandwidth.
A good choice, IMHO. I'm not familiar with nVIDIA cards.

[Zach]

6600 is pretty old.. If you can afford a better card I'd go for it. My 6800 is starting to show it's age for certain, in a lot of games.

If playing in lower resolutions and with less detail doesn't really bother you, then yeah you could get by for a couple years yet with the 6600.

[Jale]

He's being struggled by his PSU. That's why he can't get any high-end card.

[Crazy!]

yeah my psu is a problem i'm starting to notice...I tried bidding on a Radeon 6000 PRO [256MB, AGP] card and this card would work well with a 300W psu and it sounds pretty good and affordable, would this be a better choice than the Geforce 6600 or 6800??

Thanks!

[Jale]

yeah my psu is a problem i'm starting to notice...I tried bidding on a Radeon 6000 PRO [256MB, AGP] card and this card would work well with a 300W psu and it sounds pretty good and affordable, would this be a better choice than the Geforce 6600 or 6800??

Thanks!
Radeon what? :confused:

The 6800 is better than the 6600, being the 6800 a high-end card while the 6600 is a mid-range card.

[Crazy!]

Radeon what? :confused:

The 6800 is better than the 6600, being the 6800 a high-end card while the 6600 is a mid-range card.

lol, haha, 'ooops I did it AGAIN!!' sorry I meant the Radeon 9600 PRO {256MB AGP}, look here's the one I lost on eBay -> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=005&sspagename=STRK%3AMEDW%3AIT&viewitem=&item=150114742625&rd=1&rd=1

Here's the one I'm watching, is it wise to get this card on a budget and with my 300W psu??? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=300103488736&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=020

I've looked on the official ATI site and it said it recommends 300W or higher, so I'm sure it'll be cool! ;x

[Zach]

6600 Will probably edge out the 9600 Pro. My bro had one and neither he or I were at all impressed with it - and he upgraded from a shitty 9200 at that.

It doesn't even begin to compare to the 6800 for sure.

[Crazy!]

Oh I thought that card was older than the 9600 PRO, so your saying the 6800 is better, I cant remember if that'll work with my PSU, I'll go and see and I've got to make a decison soon on which card will give me the BEST performance with 512MB of RAM and a 300W Power Supply...mmmmm

[Jale]

Just because the 6600 is a lower number than the 9600 it doesn't mean is crappy. The 6600 is from nVIDIA's and the 9600 is from ATI's and both have different naming schemes.

I agree with Zach on this. If you want an AGP high-end card, get the 6800. It's the best AGP card out there.

[Crazy!]

Ok, thanks, I'll look around for one of those! ;)

[Crazy!]

;) I've made a decison finally I'm getting a ATI Radeon 9600 Pro 256MB AGP card, it's affordable, has some of the latest technology and I'm pretty sure it'll work with my 300W psu and the seller has pretty much agreed and thinks it will after me giving him my computer specs! It'll definitely do for quite a while!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=020&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=300103488736&rd=1&rd=1

[Jale]

Are you really sure that's the card you want? I'm not saying this is a bad card, but I recommend you to think twice.

[Crazy!]

well I just can't find a decent card that'll work with my PSU well, I've done research and this one will work I'm certain, what other one do you suggest that will definitely work well with my power supply?? Is this card shoddy then, will it not play modern games at a good rate???

Thanks! :p

[Jale]

This card will do you good, but don't expect high frame rates for modern PC games. Remember the 9600 is a mainstream (mid-range) card.

[Crazy!]

Hi ok, if it'll do good enough for a while, I think I'm gonna get it, Butters can I just ask a little question??? I've forgotten AGAIN, what card you have, because you have a 250W PSU and have a good card, which card is this??

[Jale]

It's a Radeon X1600 Pro. To be more specific, it's a PowerColor X1600 Pro.

Here's a picture (http://img.clubic.com/photo/00305183.jpg) of it.

[Crazy!]

And this card will work in my system as well as it does yours yes, considering my power supply is better than yours, yeah?? ;)

edit -Ive looked around and that cards requires a recommended minimum of a 350W PSU, so if it works in your comp, then you're extremely lucky! And I've aslo read that the card has caused loads of problems for peeps! And I also understand that cards perform better when there's less stuff in your computer taking psu power...

[Jale]

Yes. In fact, I'm getting a new PSU. I've asked the computer shop owner what to consider when buying a new PSU. The fact is that the higher Ws the PSU has the more devices you can connect at once and, of course, the more you will have to pay the power bill.

I'm getting a 550 W PSU.

[Crazy!]

right so it'll work in my computer as it is now?? Are you getting a new psu because the card isn't working or so you can get a better card? I just don't know what to get???:confused:

[Jale]

I'm getting a new PSU to connect more devices. Don't worry, my video card is fine and kicking ;)

[Crazy!]

So do you think either a x1600 PRO, Radeon 9600/XT, or Radeon 9800XT will work well in my system with a 300W Power Supply? Which ones yes and which ones no?

Thanks! :p

[Jale]

Any of them will work with your current PSU. Just make sure to plug the power cord before turning on your PC or your card will burn.

[Crazy!]

:confused:
Any of them will work with your current PSU. Just make sure to plug the power cord before turning on your PC or your card will burn.

what do ya mean??

[Jale]

Powerful cards require additional power. That's why you must plug the power cord from your PSU to your video card, just like a hard disk drive.

[Crazy!]

what cord from the psu should I plug into the AGP Card, how and where do I plug it into the card I think that detailed tutorial you was gonna do a bit back is a good idea if you don't mind...:p ;)

[Jale]

This thing:


http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/4888/plugyp2.jpg

By the way, I'm now using a brand new 550W PSU and everything is going cool :D


http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/4596/psudj9.jpg

[Zach]

It's called a MOLEX connector, for future reference

[Jale]

Thanks for the info, Zach. Never heard of it :confused:

[Crazy!]

thanks both! :D :bow: