The Ultimate Emulator Project

[Shadow Angle]

Emulators are the greatest way to experience the past, and for free. NES and Gameboy ROMs are held with no real threat of legal punishment, and they bring back the greatest that was ever done back during gaming.

But there is soo much to do for the Emulator scene. Netplay is still weak (with the exemption of LAN and top of the line High Speed), there are games yet to be properly emulated, and the PSx emulators are a plain hassle to get working fully.

I just wanted to bring back the force of getting emulators back into shape once again. My idea was a result of Jug claiming that net play on the XB360 is unmatched (given you pay for it, and must have an ether net Internet connectoin). At the same time, I was in lust for a good NES, SNES, and Game Boy (Color) emulator for the 360. That's when it hit me: There is still so much more to be done to make a emulator perfect.

My idea for that perfect emulator is optimized net play (chat via text 'n voice, too) for dialup and highspeed alike, perfected ROM emulation (steady FPS, perfect sound, etc...), auto updating and patching, and console platform support (namely on CD based consoles, such as the 360, PS2/3, Game cube/Revolution, and maybe even the DS and PSP).

This emulator project is not for just a NES, or SNES, or GB, or Genesis, or PSx, or even MAME. It will cover as many possible, and hopefully all retro consoles, from the classic arcades and Atari/Intelivition, to the advanced arcades and XB/PS2/GC. All emulators that are made and powered and accessed by a master client, and the client will need an expansion of any desired emulator to have that emulator for use. Each emulator will have a universal net play system, a organized set of control configuration, video and audio perfection, and so on, all powered by the client. The emulators could run off normal ROMs, but would work best with special ROMs. This new ROM format would be exactly the same, but it would have signature video and audio configuration, such as a set frame rate limit, audio rate limit, sprite display, audio organizing, and the like. This new ROM format would help make the emulator run smoothly, as it works with it, and not for it. The ROM format, if configurated to, would separate each sections of a split screen to the corresponding player on net play.

These emulators would run on PC and CD based consoles alike, as well as the new Gen handhelds. W/ the PS2/3 and gamecube's Internet linkup, XB and 360's XBL, and the DS/PSP/Revolutions WiFi LAN and Internet linkup, any platform could connect to the web for patches, news updates, and multi player (LAN and Internet play).

And that's just the start of my idea for a perfect emulator, and a branch of emulators. I'm hear bringing this idea to air to see if anyway wants to help me with it. 10 codes, and gathering a few of the best emulaor coders (If at all possible), will help. My idea for this is to get started on a PC and 360 release of a NES and Gameboy emulator under this formula.

This project, for now, will be named DeBolt Retro.

anyone want to help me?

[alcoatjez]

May I ask how long you're into emulation? Sorry to be so harsh, but if you would have known anything from the emulation scene, you would know that the chance of succeeding for this project is <0.01%... [pessimist mode off]

[Shadow Angle]

May I ask how long you're into emulation? Sorry to be so harsh, but if you would have known anything from the emulation scene, you would know that the chance of succeeding for this project is <0.01%... [pessimist mode off]

I've been into emulation since I was 7 (started with a Snes emulator, then worked my way up to nes, GB, and then N64, MAME, and I'm starting to use a PSx emulator). I'm not always up to date with the emulator news, but I've been doing it as of late.

And I do know this is a 100 mils of a long shot. But if it means accually pulling it off, and having the worlds greatest emulators out and about, then all the better.

[alcoatjez]

And I do know this is a 100 mils of a long shot. But if it means accually pulling it off, and having the worlds greatest emulators out and about, then all the better.

My comment was not meant to be rude, I was just being realistic. I really hope you can pull it off. I'll be the first to congratulate you then ;)

[Cheetah]

I wish you the best of luck with your project, but I have to agree with alcoatjez. People have been trying to create "the perfect emulator" as long as they've been making emulators. To perfectly render video and audio, and to have every game run equally as flawlessly, you would need an army of the best programmers in the world, and to do it in any decent timeframe, you would likely need to dump quite a lot of cash into the development as well.

The downside to emulation is that your system has to, well emulate another system. That takes a lot of power. I myself haven't been into game emulation for too long at all, just a few weeks probably, but emulation isn't exactly new to me.

Everyone knows Windows is a more popular OS, so you get more software for it. I personally love Apple computers, and to run Windows based programs, you need(ed) a program called VirtualPC. Given Microsoft bought the rights to said prgram quite some time ago, so it's been argued that they were designing crappy limits into the functionality of the program to keep more business of their own. Anyway, running a 1.1Ghz PC with WinXP Pro, I can run many programs flawlessly. On a 1.6Ghz Mac, a lot of those same programs would run as slow as you could imagine, because it had to emulate another system. Emulation takes a lot of time and a lot of know how....I suggest doing as much research as you can before you start throwing around an overzealous gameplan.

Again, I really hope you can pull it off, I'd probably be willing to spend some money on a program like that...But it's a pretty ambitious goal.

[Genome]

I've been into emulation since I was 7
im sorry but how old are you now? as far back as i can recall emulation came about (mainstream) in the mid 90's. so say it was 96 that would make you....damn hold on 2006-1996=10 so 10+7=17. most people who makes emulators are adults. i mean ppl who range from mid 20's to late thirties and beyond. its not a matter of age, dont get me wrong. its a matter of experience. i takes an incredible amount of knowledge in the subject. (more than anyone here posses imho)it doesnt sound plausible to make a perfect emulator.:(

but if you really want to i would start by taking the emulator M.E.S.S and hacking it. it already plays most systems and you wouldnt have to worry about programing an emulator from scratch. the only problem is this will still be a very hard task to do.

dare to dream though.:happy: gl whatever you decide to do.;)

[TheCreator]

If you wanted this perfect emulator, then you should expect to be paying for that kind of thing. The thing is, emulators could easily start being made by Sony, Sega, Microsoft, Nintendo, etc. tomorrow if they wanted to, and because they know the code they could create a perfect one. But the catch is, that's never going to happen and if it did don't come here in 5 years expecting to download it for nothing as freeware, they'll want money.

That's where our emulator programmers come in, and it's there hobby out of commitment, skills and time to bring our emulators, most wouldn't get payed for this, and it'supo to them to learn the code that Sony has in a safe somewhere. Because of this, emulators will never be perfect.

It's also up to the coders if they want to merge all the emulators together, and having these "signed" games would only be possible if Nintendo, Sony, etc. made them. The netplay would also be difficult to emulate, as it has to be done differently for all the consoles.

Realsitcally speaking, if you want something, as mentioned in this forums, is the "emulator os" where you can pick an emulator to load up, or have a frontend program for the emulators. But again, there will be no 'perfect' emulator, unless the actual creators want to step in and in that case we'd have to pay.

[Shadow Angle]

well... I'm 16, so you were close Genome.

as for all that you meantioned Creator, I can see where you're going with this. On the contrary, I feel it could be worth a shot still. Better to try and fail misrabally, then to hold off, and eventually ask 'what if...?'

and alcoatjez, don't feel like I take offence. On the side note, I'm not making any promises. :P

[Genome]

well... I'm 16, so you were close Genome.


hmmm i can do math:laugh: . seriously though i wasnt trying to offend you with that statement. just trying to prove a point (i also had dreams of making an emulator when i was 16 or 17. but then i realised im too damn stupid :laugh: )

gl man. hope you achive your goal.

[-=VampyR=-]

but then i realised im too damn stupid
...or that you have no programming skills,it sounds better.

[Genome]

well that is true too. but i dunno i am pretty stupid:bleh:

[Shadow Angle]

You guys are quick to figure I'm offened by the smallest of things. :lol:

[onewecallgod]

I've been into emulation since I was 7 (started with a Snes emulator, then worked my way up to nes, GB, and then N64, MAME, and I'm starting to use a PSx emulator). I'm not always up to date with the emulator news, but I've been doing it as of late.
there's a difference between an emulator player and an emulator writer. your ability to use an emulator doesn't reflect your skill as a coder, life isn't so simple, buddy. if you have trouble setting up something as simple as ePSXe, your project is doomed to fail.

[cloud4004]

Lol, I think you should go for it now just to prove us wrong... ;)

[Jale]

A very ambixious project that requires more than skills :huh:

[TheCreator]

I just don't think we're going to be able to combine all the emulators, it'll take too long to start from scratch and we'll have to have all the programmers chip in and then change all the front ends. Not all the programmers are going to want to do this, plus then we'd have to have the programmers in emulating the net play/2 player over net and many are just going to want to stick to their own projects.

Unless you have the skills to combine all these emulators, the idea sounds unrealistic on such a scale. Emulators have been combined (Fusion (SMS/GG/Genesis) Atari, PC emulators, etc.) but when we're talking 32-bit consoles upwards, it's not possible to achieve such perfection.

[Shadow Angle]

so much for support from this forum too, eh? :(

[Zach]

We are giving you the best kind of support you can get dude, it's called the truth. It's not like the movies where someone has an epiphany in the last 20 minutes and wins the contest/get's the girl/wins the race/ programs the most advanced emulator on the planet

[-=VampyR=-]

so much for support from this forum too, eh?
Put it this way...it's not as easy as said.It requires too much work.
There is MESS...it has lots of systems emulated.

[Genome]

It's not like the movies where someone has an epiphany in the last 20 minutes and wins the contest/get's the girl/wins the race/ programs the most advanced emulator on the planet

aaaah movies. they make our own dreary dead-end lives seem happy :laugh:


I just don't think we're going to be able to combine all the emulators, it'll take too long to start from scratch and we'll have to have all the programmers chip in and then change all the front ends. Not all the programmers are going to want to do this, plus then we'd have to have the programmers in emulating the net play/2 player over net and many are just going to want to stick to their own projects.

Unless you have the skills to combine all these emulators, the idea sounds unrealistic on such a scale. Emulators have been combined (Fusion (SMS/GG/Genesis) Atari, PC emulators, etc.) but when we're talking 32-bit consoles upwards, it's not possible to achieve such perfection.


There is MESS...it has lots of systems emulated.

hmm no one reads my posts:closedeye

but if you really want to i would start by taking the emulator M.E.S.S and hacking it. it already plays most systems and you wouldnt have to worry about programing an emulator from scratch. the only problem is this will still be a very hard task to do.

[-=VampyR=-]

I read your post but I wanted to remind the guy the "basics" to say so...

[sugarego]

ok, so here's what i'm wondering: are you a programmer? clearly age alone wouldn't prevent someone from developing a killer program (look at firefox) and especially when you're 16 and you have possibly 2 years or so before you have to be responsible and pay your own bills and all that, you may just have more time, energy, and enthusiasm than any of the older peeps, which could greatly offset the lack of experience.

if you're not a programmer, you do realize you're essentially the client, asking a group of skilled programmers to put in lots of time and energy, making an excellent piece of software to all your specifications, but for free! not to say it wouldn't work out lovely if some people needed the enthusiasm of a youngster to gather them all together in one place and were already thinking of doing something like that.

but don't be surprised if people are like, whoa dude, that's a tall order, no way. i always turn down jobs immediately for small website projects and the like from friends and their friends because the projects are always so much more work than you ever expect, and your friends are sooo nice when they ask you to change/update/improve just *one* more thing, and you can't resist because you're so nice, and then by the end you're getting like $2/hr for your work, and you're glad you made them happy, but you're worn out. this project you describe is a thousand-fold more involved, and pays even less.

at the end, you won't have something that didn't exist, you'd just have something that works better and is easier to set up, which would make people happy, but for all that time and energy, why not completely develop your own thing? like a new game that runs on the old platforms, or maybe even figuring out how all the current game/emulator combos are buggy, and writing up really excellent and comprehensive documentation for all the platforms, so no one will have the troubles you had setting up?

i know that if i was 16 again, and could put in two years on a project and was really into games, i would rather work on my own piece of creativity! and if you're not a programmer, now's a good time to start learning! you only get those last two years at home once in your life, so choose wisely. you're old enough to do something meaningful in the world, can handle sleep deprivation better than at any other age, and you have the opportunity to put something cool in your portfolio by the time you head off to college.

[-=VampyR=-]

sugarego...you're right.But the guy has dreams...

[Leerz]

i think he meant "using emulators since 7"
NOT writing and authoring emulators ;)
you gotta know programming if you wish to succeed on this.



...
agree(on some parts) if you[HE] wish to learn programming, do it as early as possible
its like teaching a kid how to ride a bike without training wheels, anyways,
i think you should have gon easy on him dude :P

[ulaoulao]

my two pennies.


.. Ok one program to do it all, well ya sure its possible, but you would need a lot of menus. its would be an OS in its self. I mean all the power to you, It would be nice. but booting a sega cd it not like booting an pce cd. and running a n64 joy stick app is not going to be similar to sega? You would need a configuration page for each emu so that in its self kills the idea. You would be better off creating an emu-OS. Personally I want all my emulation needs in one place like the idea you have. Fortunately for me its exists... Qucickplay. on the left I have my systems and the right I have my games, and I double click and poofff, its does it all. Not only that but I designed my own switch box for my joysticks n64/atari/snes/nes/psx for now. But if you pull its off its worth it just to see it run.

[pearl jamed]

Sounds like A sick idea but I just play. I'm just a guy who is reliving the 80's and 90's. I don't even how to work some emulators. :( sorry dude.

[egg]

I think you're aiming just a little too high for your first project. Why don't you start with something simple, like an Atari 2600 emulator with a halfway decent GUI??

[DrAkeNgaRd_KneLL]

I think you're aiming just a little too high for your first project. Why don't you start with something simple, like an Atari 2600 emulator with a halfway decent GUI??

that might be good but it depends upon the person... :)

[alcoatjez]

I think you're aiming just a little too high for your first project. Why don't you start with something simple, like an Atari 2600 emulator with a halfway decent GUI??

As if an 2600 emulator is that simple. If the games look simple, that doesn't mean programming an emulator for it is...

[jv9]

I think you're aiming just a little too high for your first project. Why don't you start with something simple, like an Atari 2600 emulator with a halfway decent GUI??

As alcoatjez said, it isn't easy as it involves complicated reverse engineering..and the best way to start your programming is to do the classic hello world and not emulators ;)

[DrAkeNgaRd_KneLL]

I think you're aiming just a little too high for your first project. Why don't you start with something simple, like an Atari 2600 emulator with a halfway decent GUI??

maybe try emulating a brick game? emulating could be difficult...:)

[egg]

As if an 2600 emulator is that simple. If the games look simple, that doesn't mean programming an emulator for it is...
It was just an example you dolt. You'll have to excuse me of 2600 emulators aren't the easiest out there. The basic premise is that he should start out small, and then work his way up.

Now, do you have anything useful to add to the discussion, or are you just here to nitpick?

[hagbard]

I think he wasn't that harsh, isn't it egg? :glare: It's OK if you don't to like his opinion, but your "qualifications" weren't necessary. You have been warned

[alcoatjez]

Now, do you have anything useful to add to the discussion, or are you just here to nitpick?

I just corrected something you said. So IMHO it IS adding soemthing to the discussion. I can't program myself, but I know enough about it that I understand emulator programming is very difficult.

[Teemah]

yeah, the same as everyone else said...good luck with your plan. hope it works!

heheh for some reason this reminds me of some RPG......

(shadow angle leveled up! learned emu creation!)

[TheCreator]

To celebrate my 100th post, there's no need to bump up an old thread, and if you read the topic you may be aware of the problems with the ultimate emu project.

[Taipan]

i was lookin up info on the PS3 n XBox 360 and i read about the new nintendo system is spose to have emulators back to nes on it(all nintendo) and they have to top 10 emulation programers in the world on it....dono if it is bullsh!t or not but i cant see why not....as they would have the money and proly would have the most emulators and roms out there.....snes....

[Xiedo]

I heard that, too although I heard it was definite... one of the reasons they designed the controller they way they did. The only thing that I don't know is what games will be available (Nintendo only or not) and how much the games will cost. Knowing Ninty it could be $5 or more for a single NES game.

[DudeJustDoIT]

Well i hear that for awhile they will only put out nintendo titles untill they either contract with Square and Capcom, n EA and the others or just buy out the specific game titles individually. I hope it is soon after though because i want ALOT of games other than Nintendo... Since the games are going to be emulated i wonder if there will be a way to take the ROMs we have and transfer them. :D

[alcoatjez]

NES, SNES, N64, PC-Engine and Genesis ROMs will be available. Of course not all of them, since Nintendo has to have permission (read: contract) to do this.

[malfunkshun]

let me see if i have this straight... you want to create the perfect emulator for all platforms? that is, one emulator that will play any rom, be it genesis, snes, game boy, etc?

well, here is how you do it. write a front end prog that can manipulate zsnes, gens+, virtual boy advance, nesterJ, meka, magic engine, mame32, winvice, neoRageX, winfellow, handy, stella, and neoPop, with the ability to load each rom into its corresponding emulator without having to quit the frontend or switch progs. and there you have it, your perfect emulator. able to run almost any rom from any classic handheld or console.

[Zach]

That's just a half ass front end, and is still platform dependant on the emulator's side.

[malfunkshun]

so? why write an entirely new emulator that has to emulate, in one program, all of those consoles, when there are already good emulators written for most of them? a cleverly designed front end program could make it feel like you are only using one emulator to play all of your games, by providing an ubiquitous interface with each emulator inside the front end program itself. and it doesn't have to be 'half-assed', as you put it.

[Lefteris_D]

We already have an emulator that can handle many systems, see MESS (http://www.mess.org).

[malfunkshun]

interesting. is it any good?

[alcoatjez]

interesting. is it any good?

For the most common systems, the single system emulators are better, but there are a few systems that are only emulated by MESS.
MESS focuses on accuracy (like MAME), so take into account that it can be very slow.