Which one is best suited for.....?

[leon_belmont]

Hi , at the end of the month i decided to upgrade my Desktop.

Main things i want to do ,is play Wii,PS2,Gamecube

Which of these ones is better suited for this task?

Intel Based

Intel Dual Core E5200 2.5 GHZ 800MHZ ,2MB Cache
Silicon Power 2048MB RAM 800MHZ
PCI Express 1024MB VGA GARD DDR2 DVI TV
Other things are not important like HDD DVD Writer etc.
Price 334 USD.

AMD Based
Amd Athlon 64 X2 4400+ 2.3 GHZ
others equal like the intel based.
Price 300USD

Intel Based Quad
Intel Quad Core 2.3ghz 1333Mhz 4MB Cache
Silicon Power 4096Mb Ram 800mhz
Pci Express 1024MB
Price 800 USD

AMD BASED
Athlon Procesor AM2 5000+ Dual Core
others equal
Price 600 USD

I am aiming for the 600USD AMD as this is how much i am aiming to spent for a PC.

What do you suggest?

[Zach]

Honestly.. it doesn't matter how powerful your rig is... Those systems have a long way to come, if they are even emulated in any realistic form yet..

Don't upgrade your PC because you want to emulate.. Upgrade it cause you want to do PC things.. You could probably buy all those consoles for $600 and then chip them.

[leon_belmont]

But i ve seen videos of Dolphin ,or Dolwin emulator in youtube emulating CASTLEVANIA JUDGEMENT at full speed in a Core 2 duo extreme procesor. And even some GC games. I dont know about PS2. Of course i will do the same thing which i do with my actual pc with the new one.

[Jale]

That's because some games run flawlessly, some don't and some won't run at all. I agree with Zach. If you're going to spend lots of money in a PC to emulate, it's always better to get the real system and mod it. It's a lot cheaper and runs flawlessly that way.

[leon_belmont]

I agree with you ,but still i am going to upgrade,cause i cant stand anymore a singlecore,so which one of the systems is more worth the money?

[Zach]

I would go with a Core 2 Duo setup.

Quad Cores are fun for bragging rights, but VERY FEW programs actually utilize all 4 cores. Hell most games don't even push my C2D to 100% on both cores.

Also.. are you recycling your HDD and stuff? You need to be careful.. Most new motherboards are predominantly SATA. They might have 1 PATA IDE port at most. If you don't have SATA drives this makes it difficult..

But SATA HDD/DVD Burners are pretty cheap for decent sizes these days.

Is your total budget $600 USD? Are you gonna buy from a specific store? If you can buy from Newegg I would do that.. but they seem to randomly enforce this "no international credit cards" policy, with some getting through and some not.. It's hard to recommend parts when we don't know exactly where you are shopping because prices can vary wildly, especially when changing currency

[leon_belmont]

600 is what i took apart for a new PC. but i can go to 700 the most for a desktop.

The Intel Core 2 Duo E5200 2.5 X 2=5ghz
2GB of RAM
1024 VGA

sounds really reasonable to a price of 334 USD.,well in fact i consider it cheap confronting the specs with a ebay Core 2 Duo desktop,so probably i will go for this,although i would have prefer a E6600 Core 2 duo processor.

The rest i am gonna buy a mini netbook 8.9 with Linux.

P.S When i buy in dollars i win a lot,because most things are sold in Euros in Albania,so i prefer USD as i can save a LOT.

[Zach]

Ok but you realize you are not getting a 5Ghz PC? Its not really twice as powerful because it has 2 cores.. I don't think CPUs scale that way anymore. It just makes better multitasking and such.


If you are buying from a local store, then I can't really give you much advice though.. Or tell you how much of what you can get for your money.

I would recommend though..

C2Duo @ 2.6Ghz or better. Get as close to 3Ghz as possible for it to really shine.
A good graphics card would be an AMD/ATI Radeon 4870 1GB, or 4890 1GB. They perform on par with many of the GTX series models, except they are nearly as rediculously priced.. when going for a Nvidia GTX get a Minimum of a GTX 260 (216 core) or get a GTX 280/85. Skip the 275 altogether really.
Recommend at least 8GB of DDR2 or DDR3 depending on the motherboard you get and what type of DDR it supports and what its maximum is.. Get a board that at LEAST supports 8GB of either type.. And don't automatically run out and buy the fastest RAM you can get your hands on, because it won't matter if you are not overclocking.. If your CPU is 1066FSB, get ram designed for that FSB, if its 1333FSB, get RAM rated for 1333, etc. With a 1:1 memory divider in BIOS it will run fine, and even if you overclock in the future (and you will have to use your FSB) a good DECENT board will have lower divider options so you can keep your RAM within its specs even though the FSB is higher.. However I doubt you will be overclocking, so just get the ram rated for your CPU/Mobo and don't be swindled into other higher priced shit you won't fully utilize.


As for whether or not $334 USD is reasonable, that doesn't say much at all.. your specs are very cague.. CPU's alone can cost upwards of $200+ USD, and you haven't listed a motherboard you are gonna purchase (I recommend Gigabyte, they are good boards and inexpensive for what you need) and "1024MB VGA" is too vague to mean anything.. Also - what about your power supply?? You HAVE to get a new power supply if you are gonna buy a modern CPU and Video card.. if yours is some shitty 300W or even 400W it may not be ATX 2.0 compatible if its real old, and will NOT power a modern video card.

You need at least a 550W power supply that has support for at least 2 PCI-Express power plugs, as most cards either require 1 or 2 of these.

[Zach]

If you can get us an exact list of all the parts you are planning to purchase and how much the cost is per part, or if it comes as a "packaged set" etc..

We need individual product names and specs to work off of, if you are going to get ANY helpful advice.. and DON'T forget the power supply!

[Jale]

The Intel Core 2 Duo E5200 2.5 X 2=5ghz
2GB of RAM
1024 VGA
Woah, there! Just because it has two cores, doesn't mean you'll get 5 GHz. 2.5 GHz is the speed per core and, depend of the application you're running, it will utilize one or both of them. For instance, if you run an old application that does not support multitasking or multicore, it will work as fast as a Pentium 4 of the same speed, with some variants regarding FSB and memory architecture.

And Zach is right. I have a Core 2 Quad computer and very few applications use all four cores. The only ones I have that manage to run all four cores are Photoshop CS4, Devil May Cry 4, Grand Theft Auto 4 and Assassin's Creed (as you can see, most games already support quad core technology).

[leon_belmont]

The parts
Intel E8200 Core 2 Duo 2.66 GHZ 6MB Cache
4 GB Kingston RAM 800MHZ
ATI RADEON 3460 HD
200GB HDD
ASUS MOTHERBOARD M5N(dont remember the other numbers)
Dual Layer DVD Burner

for 430 USD i think its ok.
I built it myself at the store where i bought my actual PC,by choosing all the parts.
(just i made an order for the end of the month,still havent got it)

Now a question ,i saw the video card and it didnt have HDMI port on it.
If i buy a more complex video card like one i saw on ebay ATI with HDMI onboard will it fit in any modern motherboard ? If so that would be my final ideal choice for the video card ,as this is the part i am concerned most.

[Zach]

Leon the 3460 is not the model I gave you the link to in your TV thread. You are looking at the wrong card, that is why it has no HDMI.

The model is this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121259

3450, not 60.


As for how to tell if a video card will fit in your motherboard, that is simple. Your motherboard should have a PCI-Express x16 port, (if the board you picked has AGP you are getting swindled), so just read the specs on any video card you may be purchasing and make sure it is a PCI Express x16 card.

Also you are not making sense with the motherboard model.. The only results I can find for "Asus M5N" keep refering to a laptop. And also you still haven't mentioned what you are gonna do about a power supply.. You need to get a new power supply for this stuff most likely, as if your PC is pretty old it probably doesn't even have the proper power plugs for the motherboard anymore.

Do you know what kind of case your PC has? Is it a mini-tower, mid-tower, or full tower? Because the size of the motherboard and power supply also matters if you buy the wrong ones and they can't fit in your case.

[leon_belmont]

Well it will have a new case with the right power supply,but you didnt answer my question,so how can i add to the ASUS motherboard which has the PCI X16 you are mentioning the HDMI graphic caRD ,so i can hook up my PC just like my PS3 ,HDMI to HDMI?

PS. But hey Zach you gave me a really good idea, i will start out by buying the video card you re mentioning one of these days,and then i will look for a motherboard adequate for it,which has also support for the largest FSB. Then adding other things will be a joke.

Thanks man. Consider this topic finished now.

[Zach]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean, "how you can add to the motherboard, the graphics card so you can use HDMI" ??

And to answer any questions about the motherboard I really need a full model number.. Like I said the info you gave kept giving me google hits on Laptops, not motherboards.

The graphics card I am telling you to buy is PCI-Express. All you have to do is buy a Motherboard that has a PCI-Express x16 slot on it. All new motherboards come with one these days.. That's all there is to it, buy the board, install the card into the slot, just like any other graphics card... Then you can use an HDMI cable to connect your computers HDMI port to the TV's HDMI input port... What aren't you understanding?

Also.. about buying a case with a power supply.. Unless you are buying a high-end case, and picking a custom power supply as an option - that is not gonna work out very well for you. Computer cases are notoriously for coming with crappy, cheap ass power supplies, just barely good enough to power a sub-standard computer.

Even in today's age, when you might get a 400 or 450W, or even 500W PSU with a case, it is not usually good enough or may lack the appropriate power plugs for PCI-Express graphics cards.

[Mupen64 Man]

It looks like those computers are running integrated graphic cards, you have no hope with the standard chip set, Just felt the need to point that out. Need something like Ge force or ATI.

[leon_belmont]

No problem cause i already fixed my actual PC,(i am typing from my new screen now) and works like a charm with DVI to HDMI with external audio speakers for sound. So i can wait another month and go for the ultimate machine quadcore.

Anyway now another question ,with Linux you can play HD movies if your screen supports it, i am wondering can i play Blu ray files ,right from my HDD in my Windows with VLC media player if i add the Bluray Codecs ????

P.S My TV doesnt support Linux,the mouse scrolled down very slowly so thats why i am asking for it in Windows.

[Zach]

Umm.. your TV has nothing to do with what OS you can run. Your drivers for your laptops graphics chip do, as well as setting the correct monitor options in linux.

You should ask on a linux forum about your problem. There is no reason why Linux should not run on your laptop and display on the TV.

Also.. I don't know much about video players and all that jazz, especially when it comes to blu-ray.. But for standard HD and whatnot, download the CCCP Combined Community Codec Pack (http://cccp-project.net/). It lets you install media player classic, as well as Zoom player I think, and you should be able to playback HD codecs (x264) and all that stuff.. I don't know about blur-ray discs and whatnot (especially if you don't have a blu-ray drive) but for widescreen format HD videos you should be good to go.

But still I would not bother with a quad-core even if you are saving up, UNLESS you are planning on buying a Core i7 CPU (Intel's newest CPU) but that can be extremely expensive with the motherboards alone costing as much as a Core 2 Duo chip in most cases..

I can give you a list of parts that you can try to find locally and find out how much you have to save up, if you like.. Although I suggest saving up for more than 1 month, possibly 2 or 3.. It will be worth it.

[leon_belmont]

I saw at a forum of Linux ,that that was possible on Linux in PS3. So to see my Bluray .mkv riped with X264 and AAC i need a ATI HD or NVIDIA HD card. I think i give up on a quad core and here is what i am gonna do ,at my existing PC i will change processor add a Core 2 Duo ,or Dual Core(i know it supports dual core ,not sure about core 2 duo) and add a ATI HD Video card and add 2GB of ram ,so i will go to 4GB(a 32 bit pc dont use more than 3-3.5GB of Ram) and save really a LOT. (All the other money is gonna go for PS3 Games and a few Blu Ray original DVDS)

PS Linux display well in my TV only i cant see the menus to change my screen resolution as i set linux to the maximum and my TV the maximum can display is the resolution of 720p as a PC and 1080i as PS3.

[Zach]

You don't need a card with "HD" in the model to display high-def content. Whoever told you that is full of crap.

Computers are already high definition and can display resolutions way beyond 1080p and all the other lesser HD resolutions as it is. All you need is a card with the proper TV-out connections.

[leon_belmont]

That cheater,but anyway i fixed Linux,and just installed Vista Home Premium(just for fun) and so u re saying i can watch .mpg BLURAY right from my PC/TV cause my card has the right input/output DVI-HDMI(means HD video without HD sound). I dont care much about the sound,as long as video is okay.

I tried playing TRUE ROMANCE 720P from 1993 a Blu ray Remux and the quality was not that good,still havent tried a 1080p though.

PS. A .mpg BLU RAY is a .MKV converted with mkv2vob a program created just for this purpose.
Also fixed my resolution in Windows is 1360x768 with 60Hertz and in Linux i just wanted more so i am with 1920x1200 with 30 Hertz Refresh rate(i know its a little creepy with 30 Hertz but i just wanted a fullHD resolution ,although with not 60 Hertz)
Anyway the colors of my screen just look wonderful now :)

[Zach]

Not sure how you can watch anything at 30Hz.. Especially consdering a lot of high def content is distributed to playback at 60FPS

I've had plenty of experience with MKVs so I know what you're talking about.. Sometimes people do crap quality encodes, you gotta find a trusted source / release groups known for quality..

Also.. I don't know if there will be content protection issues or not with some things.. For instance, something encoded with HDCP (high def content protection? high def copyright protection?) requires a display device that is HDCP certified to playback properly..

I was recently looking at a 24" LCD Monitor from Asus that I hope to purchase before or by Christmas time.. Currently its around $220 or so, and is 1920x1080 resolution, as well as HDCP capable. Have DVI / HDMI as well so I could even get a high-def cable box from our company and watch high-def TV without actually having to spend way more on a 24" actual TV, lol..

[Zach]

But in general, yes.. The card I told you to get (that specific model) has HDMI output. And as long as its plugged into an HDMI input, you will be able to display your PC on your TV screen. A lot of TV's have a limit in the resolutions they allow however, I know my brothers TV will not allow 1080p output from his PC but he plays Rappelz in 1440x768 or some resolution like that, so it's technically 720p instead.

Also a lot of cards have a special TV out mode, where its basically an overlay or whatever, and the picture is output to the TV and the signal is played back at whatever default resolution the TV defaults to / or detects the signal as capable of.. Versus displaying your PC desktop, etc on the TV like a monitor and blowing up a video file to full screen, etc.. That may get you crappier quality unless the video is actually encoded at the resolution you are displaying.. Ie if its a 1080p resolution (Whatever x 1080 pixels) and you don't technically need to stretch the video, etc in the player then it should playback fine with full quality, just go to full screen mode to hide your desktop etc.. Make sure the player is set NOT to stretch the video, and to maintain its original aspect ratio.


I hope I'm not confusing you.. I honestly don't know much about this stuff, but have a very basic understanding of how its supposed to work.
Should display fine.

As far as getting HD sound... If you have a home theater receiver that has the older style RCA input jacks for each channel.. (Basically a shitload of jacks on the back, a left / right RCA jack for - Fronts, Centers, Rears, and a subwoofer output, etc) then you can get full 5.1 surround sound (assuming the MKV's audio track is 5.1 and not stereo) by using several different methods..

Creative sells a cable (I have two sets) that plug into the speaker jacks on my X-Fi Xtreme Gamer card.. color coded just like actual PC speakers.. I plug in the 3.5mm Front, Center/Sub, and Rear jacks to the soundcard.. and on the other end of the cable are RCA plugs, with enough of them to create 7.1 surround if your receiver supports it (Side L/R these go bewtween the front and rear speakers in the room) or leave out the side speakers, and connect it in traditional 5.1. So you can game in 5.1 on your home theater, or upmix your music to 5.1 w/the sound cards tools, or even if you watch a 5.1 sound movie, it will all come through in 5.1 sound to the receiver because of the cable and not be a "fake" mode that the receiver often comes with to make virtual surround.

And no SPDIF /Optical TOSLINK cable is involved.. CCCP (the codec pack I recommended) comes with a tool that lets you setup your mixing of sound too.. So it can handle 5.1 soundtracks in MKV's etc.. Even if they are AC3 encoded (Dolby Digital, DTS, etc).

But the mixer also has the option (and your sound card might too I think) to pass the 5.1 signal "through" using SPDIF so the signal goes to your receiver and the receiver decodes it, just like would happen with a DVD player sending the signal to the Receiver.

So there are many options for getting real surround / hi-def sound on your system..

Because one day I will buy a TV specifically to be used for TV, DVD, consoles, AND PC gaming.. I will invest in a receiver that has 5.1 or 7.1 channel RCA inputs on the unit, so I can use the cable if I need to.. Hopefully soundcards that work as they do now, but encode sound to a Dolby signal on the fly and output it via SPDIF/Optical for receivers, will be around and affordable for the average joe.. Then you wouldn't need all the RCA hub-bub and special cables..

Even if you are using onboard sound, and not a creative sound card, I think the cable can still work (we tried it on my brothers receiver, with his onboard chipset, but couldn't get the channel just right - this may have not been the cables fault though).

[leon_belmont]

No you re not confusing me at all. I didnt know anything about HD before i bought my PS3,since then by searching a lot of HD forums ,i learned a few things. I checked my Volume Control in Vista and its says High Definition audio device ,(but isnt HD sound cause when i play music in my PS3 its far too superior quality than my PC),but i tried to play a few movies and only the SINNERS group had awesome quality 1080p Blu ray in VLC.

[Zach]

Yeah I have an onboard HD Chipset too.. Technically it is because of the sampling rates Onboard HD chipsets support. And some have options either on the board, or through accessories (headers on the motherboard) to use SPDIF / TOSLINK and pass the Dolby signals thru to a receiver.

So that's mostly what its about.. Also Getting good sound out of a PC depends on speakers, and the audio device playing back, and the source.

A lot of audiophiles will tell you that on a top notch audio system, MP3's sound like total shit, even though they might sound good on lower end equipment.. Basically the higher fidelity/accuracy of high-end audio equipment makes the flaws of compressed music more apparent vs low end or mid-range gear.

The best way to test audio quality while eliminating the music as a source, is to playback an actual CD, or FLAC or other lossless file on the PS3 and PC, using the same set of speakers.

[Zach]

On the sound card front I just discovered this for Creative cards as well

http://buy.soundblaster.com/_creativelabsstore/cgi-bin/pd.cgi?page=product_detail&category=Software&pid=F2222DDN6Z2H2ADDEZD

So supposedly I can hook my X-Fi XtremeGamer up to a receiver and get 5.1 in games and stuff instead of using the special cable and needing a receiver with a bunch of RCA plugs (I'd personally get one with them anyway)

But its a real secondary option.. The pack is only $5, and an XtremeGamer can be had for $100 or less these days.. (XtremeGamer is the lowest model you want, Xtreme Music is not a true X-fi its a rebadged Audigy 2ZS or something)

[leon_belmont]

I decided and i only have one question left :

ATI RADEON HD 4550 (512MB) or ATI RADEON HD 3450 (256MB)

Price is almost similar.

[leon_belmont]

Already ordered my system,expecting it to come Monday afternoon,built it my self via internet and ur advices with 260 USD

Intel Core 2 Duo E7400 2.88GHZ
Apache 3GB DDR2 RAM 800MHZ
Graphic card ATI RADEON HD 3450 512MB
Motherboard ASUS with Quadcore Support
Power supply 400Watt

I kept my existing DVD and HDD.

[Zach]

Hmm, well my only concerns are I've -never- heard of that brand of RAM, and 400W for a PSU should do ok, as long as its a decent brand and you don't try to run anything thats gonna suck a lot of power.

[onewecallgod]

Not sure why you'd want to run 3GB of RAM.

[FatTrucker]

Maybe he's sticking with 32bit Windows XP?.

[onewecallgod]

At the consequence of running single channel?

[leon_belmont]

I have Vista 32 bit, but all looks good except the card , that it isnt satisfying me at all ,it can run Last Remnant with impressive clarity graphics ,but the game runs a little bit slow confronting it with XBOX 360 version.

I saw the specs of the game and it needed 512MB VGA,2GB RAM ,2.8GHZ Pentium IV,and 20GB of HDD.

I wonder why it runs slower than the XBOX 360 version,maybe my graphic card needs another update ?

PS. This graphic card supports 1920x1080 maximum resolution,and its great for the videos,but i hoped it was great for the games too.

[onewecallgod]

PS. This graphic card supports 1920x1080 maximum resolution,and its great for the videos,but i hoped it was great for the games too.
Just because the card supports that resolution doesn't mean it'll be able to draw anything other than your desktop or basic web browsing.

[Zach]

You need at least a GTX 260 or R4870/4890 to play games in those resolutions with any sort of good performance and graphics details..

Also.. Last Remnant was a good attempt by Square.. MUCH better than their Final Fantasy ports to PC, however they chose what is possibly one of the crappiest engines to do it on.. I cannot STAND the PC version, as I tried the demo, and because the engine doesn't support streaming textures, you get that stupid low quality textures for a brief second every time a new section of the game loads... Very annoying when navigating cities, etc..

I thought you didn't want to run these kinds of PC games anyway? And I'm guessing other resolutions may not look as nice on your TV except for the 1080p mode? My brothers is the same way. If you're locked into one or two resolutions, you have no recourse but the buy a real graphics card. Which is going to cost around or just over $200 USD.

Otherwise you should not be gaming above something like 1440x900, assuming it can even handle that..
I would have told you to get at least a R4850 if you had said you wanted to do real PC gaming, but you said that wasn't what you had in mind, if I recall correctly.. Mostly videos and emulators I think you said..

You have some options at this point.. Turn off Anti-Aliasing and Anisotropic Filtering, if they are on.. or at least don't run them higher than 2x/2x, 2x/4x, or 2x/8x (FSAA/AF). At 1080p you will not have too many issues with disabling AA/AF altogether anyway, and it should at least be bearable to look at. If your card has options to optimize for speed at the expensive of quality you can try that too.. You also will just have to pony up and turn down the graphics settings in the games you are playing.. If they have an auto-detect mode let them do that - but it may try to fudge with your resolution and stick you in a lower one on some games..

Also your RAM is gonna be a limiting factor in some games, so you'll just have to live with that.. You should have gone with 4GB (2x2GB) so you could run dual-channel mode, and then if you upgrade to 64-bit OS later on, you'd have a little more RAM to use.

[leon_belmont]

I just wanted a simple card like the one u told me,if i were to go for real gaming i would have get a NVIDIA HDMI 1GB 179USD at ebay,but i just thought maybe my HD3450 would handle the game :) i was just tryin. Maybe i will upgrade or maybe not,(but about 70% not) as i have downloaded a lot of DEMOS and FULL GAMES from PSN(Playstation Network) and i am enjoying my PS3 now more then ever. At least it can play Gamecube almost100% and Wii about 65% and thats great for me.(talking about HD3450 not PS3 here :) )

[Zach]

As long as you are happy with the options you have, that's all that matters.