if a 3rd person metroid...

[ulaoulao]

Pretend for a moment you're a game developer and your making a 3rd person metroid game, like zelda 64. Using this layout below and remembering how the n64 joystick is laid out. What would you suggest.

|holding center grip|
Analog movement
b - shoot
a - jump
z - duck -> ball
start - menu
Yellow buttons
u - 1st person target mode
d - change to missiles or alternative weapon.
l - swing cam left
r - swing cam right

Problem buttons
I need
up , angle up, straight , angle down.
my thoughts
Left - angle up
right- angle up
left and right - up
none for straight
But as you know its not posible to hit the left button holding the joystick this way. - any thoughts??

other
directionals - menu items


|thought 2 |
Analog movement
b - shoot
a - jump
directional down - change weapon
start - menu
Yellow buttons
u - 1st person target mode
d - duck -> ball
l - swing cam left
r - swing cam right

Z - angle down
right- angle up
z and right - up
none straight

[Desert Drifter]

Nah pal, keyboards are horrible, even the original N64 controller - always been both a pain in the neck for me... Though "pretending" to be a marvelous "programmer"... yea can program the layout to use of a PC controller as you may be just required to own an eighteen button total one with either (two analogs and ten programmable buttons) or (one analog, one digital, and ten programmable buttons)...

A line-up for ya:

-- MOVEMENT --
(With N64 layout - "Analog" buttons...)

*UP - (Joy Up) "left side analog"
*BACK - (Joy Down) "left side analog"
*RIGHT - (Joy Right) "left side analog"
*LEFT - (Joy Left) "left side analog"


-- ACTION --
(With N64 layout - "A", "B", "Z", and "Right Shoulder" buttons...)

*SHOOT - (HOLD FOR CHARGE) - (Joypad: 1) "right side pad"
*JUMP - (Joypad: 2) "right side pad"
*DUCK (TWICE FOR BALL) - (Joypad: 3) "right side pad"
*SELECT WEAPON - (Joypad: 4) "right side pad"


-- VIEW --
(With N64 layout- "Up C", "Down C", "Right C", and "Left C" buttons...)

*1ST PERSON - (Rz -) "right side analog"
*AIM/TARGET - (Rz +) "right side analog"
*SWING CAM RIGHT - (Z +) "right side analog"
*SWING CAM LEFT - (Z -) "right side analog"


-- OTHER --
(With N64 layout - "Start" button...)

*START (MENU) - (Joypad: 10) "middle button"


Just a thought using a Dual Logitech controller, though might not be perfected to everyone's, but an ideal thrown to ya as a "today's" basic, as there's also four free-able buttons to play with (one middle and three shoulder)... ;)

Now only thing missing: wonding of why such a question...

[ulaoulao]

Nah pal, keyboards are horrible, even the original N64 controller - always been both a pain in the neck for me... Though "pretending" to be a marvelous "programmer"... yea can program the layout to use of a PC controller as you may be just required to own an eighteen button total one with either (two analogs and ten programmable buttons) or (one analog, one digital, and ten programmable buttons)...- Your confusing me? keyboard??? I'm talking about a n64 joystick specifically. Just stick with this naming and none of that joypad: # stuff.. Just pretend harder that you limited to a n64 joystick only. ;)

naming
digital up
digital down
digital right
digital keft
analog up
analog down
analog right
analog left
a
b
z
start
l button (shoulder left)
r button (shoulder right)

So far I like my second lay out

Analog movement
b - shoot
a - jump
directional down - change weapon
start - menu
Yellow buttons
u - 1st person target mode
d - duck -> ball
l - swing cam left
r - swing cam right

this way I free up the z button to act like the super metroid game with l and r, only I use z instead.

Z - angle down
right- angle up
z and right - up
none straight

The other option was z for targeting like zelda but this is metroid were some skill is required, so that sorta lame.

[Desert Drifter]

Alright - let me correct that:

-- MOVEMENT --
*UP - (ANALOG UP)
*BACK - (ANALOG DOWN)
*RIGHT - (ANALOG RIGHT)
*LEFT - (ANALOG LEFT)


-- ACTION --
*SHOOT (A) "HOLD FOR CHARGE"
*JUMP (B)
*DUCK (Z) "TWICE FOR BALL"
*SELECT WEAPON (RIGHT SHOULDER)


-- VIEW --
*1ST PERSON (C - UP)
*AIM/TARGET (C - DOWN)
*SWING CAM RIGHT (C - RIGHT)
*SWING CAM LEFT (C - LEFT)


-- OTHER --
*START MENU (START)


About the "targeting", I'm talking about the lines of "Body Harvest" allowing of stance while only moving your cannon around to aim correctly - freeing up the directional pad, and eliminating the "angles" as they will frustrate the player more then help - though don't forget the other free "left shoulder"... ;)

Your ideal, but just throwing crap at ya.... :p

[ulaoulao]

I like the premise here but please elaborate.

"I ulaoulao have not plaid Body Harvest"

" Hi ulaoulao.."

Ok thats out of the way, so what is it like? I guess I could pop it in the old emulator and play it...

Keep in mind the FPS will give you a target when standing. Hitting this target button could do the same in 3rd person. but this does not help while moving. Witch is my bigger problem.

During running if you shoot you will shoot straight ahead. You can jump to get more elevation , or turn a few degrees to aim, but I need a way to angel the cannon. The game will have an "option" to proximate the shot. Make it easier if desired, but I still see a need for angels.



EDIT after playing, I think I see what you mean.

I changed the weapon select and targeting, since it would be hard to press shoot(b) and c-down.



analog - movement
b - shoot
a - jump

start - menu
Yellow buttons
u - 1st person target mode
d - change weapon
l - swing cam left
r - swing cam right

z - duck -> ball
LEFT shoulder - targeting (if pressed you keep running your current speed and direction and the analog is now for targeting) (if not running its the same but you stay stopped)

** for the purposes of the source game engine, I may warp to FP mode during targeting. Not sure yet, ill try both ways.



Is that what you would suggest?

[Desert Drifter]

Eh... okay...

Anyway - to the subject of "AIM/TARGET", hence an ideal from "Body Harvest" & "Star Fox - Assault"... as holding "AIM", you can move the angle of the gun (with "C" buttons - staying in stance only - using a different control until button "AIM" is "released"...) to fire up/down/right/left while in-game camera stays and follows behind Samus. By letting go of "AIM", you can quickly move by foot with "ANALOG" to move out of the way to reposition for holding "AIM" again to target... As the button "AIM" isn't no longer held, Samus just shoots straight while using "C RIGHT/LEFT" to spin camera around and "C UP" to see 1st person... ;)

- As I stand corrected (by mentioned fact...):

-- MOVEMENT --
*UP - (ANALOG UP)
*BACK - (ANALOG DOWN)
*RIGHT - (ANALOG RIGHT)
*LEFT - (ANALOG LEFT)


-- ACTION --
*SHOOT (B) "HOLD FOR CHARGE"
*JUMP (A)
*DUCK (Z) "TWICE FOR BALL"
*SELECT WEAPON (C - DOWN)


-- VIEW (NOT HOLDING "AIM/TARGET") --
*1ST PERSON (C - UP)
*SWING CAM RIGHT (C - RIGHT)
*SWING CAM LEFT (C - LEFT)
*AIM/TARGET (RIGHT SHOULDER)

-- VIEW (HOLDING "AIM/TARGET") --
*MOVE CANNON UP (C - UP)
*MOVE CANNON DOWN (C - DOWN)
*MOVE CANNON RIGHT (C - RIGHT)
*MOVE CANNON LEFT (C - LEFT)


-- OTHER --
*START MENU (START)

...Looks great to me, though 1st person for targeting would be a "Prime" while using the "RIGHT SHOULDER" for "AIM" doesn't make ya stretch your hand across the controller (using an original N64 controller that is...)... ;)

[ulaoulao]

Ah ok, good thought... I like the c buttons for moving the cannon. This way I could still be running and targeting at the same time. Sorta critical in metroid since you have to charge up runs and what not.

Thx man.

[ulaoulao]

WAs going to edit post, but I think my time ran up.

Ok opinion 2. Yay or na..

If you meet a corridor, and you go down, much like the 2d version. Do you think the camera should follow you, or pan out much like melee did and become a 3d/2d side scroller.

[Desert Drifter]

WAs going to edit post, but I think my time ran up.

Ok opinion 2. Yay or na..

If you meet a corridor, and you go down, much like the 2d version. Do you think the camera should follow you, or pan out much like melee did and become a 3d/2d side scroller.

The camera should follow I guess, but maybe yea can "experiment" with other ideals as it gets more "in-depth", though "meele's" pan-out was hard to see, especially details ...

You said something about "pretending" to be a programmer - what are we exactly speaking of now? The sudden skeletons popping up out of the grounds of Zebes is starting to become very "suspicious" pal... ;)

[ulaoulao]

Right right, I must have stretched your imaginative limits to hard. Must stop kidding our selves and get back to reality. There never will be such a game anyways ;)

[Desert Drifter]

Right right, I must have stretched your imaginative limits to hard. Must stop kidding our selves and get back to reality. There never will be such a game anyways ;)

Ah... so "it's" a coverup for another title in the works as the words "Metroid" and "Samus" are used as "decoys"... ;)

[ulaoulao]

OH Did I type that? I mean metropolis and Samuel.

[Desert Drifter]

OH Did I type that? I mean metropolis and Samuel.

Ah, jeeze Ulao - wouldn't even expected it, even with that avatar of yours "screaming" Samus and captioned "time for something new". Never would of thought it would be Samuel in the Metropolis instead. Guess I must get my eyes checked... Hey, what the heck do I know - it's not like we're buddies and chat in private. :p

Have fun with that project of yours pal - what ever it may be... ;)

[ulaoulao]

"Prank caller" ,, "prank caller".. ;)


Check pm...

[Desert Drifter]

Here's another idealo on the controlls - what ever the game may be, though impression of a 3rd person-shooter...

(CONTROLL FIGURATION #2)

-- MOVEMENT (NOT HOLDING "AIM") --
*RUN FORWARD - (ANALOG UP)
*RUN BACKWARD - (ANALOG DOWN)
*SWING TO RIGHT [IN STANCE] - (ANALOG RIGHT)
*SWING TO LEFT [IN STANCE] - (ANALOG LEFT)


-- MOVEMENT (HOLDING "AIM") --
*AIM CANNON UP [IN STANCE] - (ANALOG UP)
*AIM CANNON DOWN [IN STANCE] - (ANALOG DOWN)
*SWING TO RIGHT [IN STANCE] - (ANALOG RIGHT)
*SWING TO LEFT [IN STANCE] - (ANALOG LEFT)


-- ACTION --
*SHOOT [HOLD FOR CHARGE] - (B)
*JUMP [TWICE FOR SPIN] - (A)
*DUCK [TWICE FOR BALL] - (Z)
*SELECT WEAPON - (RIGHT SHOULDER)


-- VIEW --
*1ST PERSON - (C - UP)
*SPIN CAM RIGHT - (C - RIGHT)
*SPIN CAM LEFT - (C - LEFT)
*AIM - (C - DOWN)


-- OTHER --
*START MENU - (START)
*TOGGLE MAP HUD - (LEFT SHOULDER)


The controlls is a litle more tight and compact - though just a suggestion for us "nimble" fingers... ;)


"Prank caller" ,, "prank caller".. ;)


Check pm...

A prank? Ah, come on Ulao, stop messing with my head. :p

[ulaoulao]

I like it good thinking.

It's playable but no run walk etc. animation. I'm going to work that all out first. The AVI was real time let me know if you didnt get to m$MP to play it.

[Desert Drifter]

Yeah bud - got a prank video, though downloaded for possible future play when Micro$oft's evol software stops playing games with my head... ;)

As for the second layout controls, see your direction going there, though here's another ideal with using the "toggle camera" option in Super Mario 64 with two options "fixed" and "free"...

-------------------------------

(CONTROL CONFIGURATION #1 - FREE)

NOTES: With camera "move-able" in numerous angles...

-- MOVEMENT --
*RUN FORWARD - (ANALOG UP)
*RUN RIGHT - (ANALOG RIGHT)
*RUN LEFT - (ANALOG LEFT)
*RUN BACK - (ANALOG DOWN)


-- ACTION --
*ATTACK/BOMB [HOLD FOR CHARGE - EXPECT IN BALL FORM] - (B)
*JUMP/BOUNCE [TWICE FOR SPIN - EXPECT IN BALL FORM] - (A)
*KNEEL [HOLD FOR KNEELING] & [TWICE FOR BALL] & [THIRD FOR RETURN] - (Z)


*AIM [HOLD TO OPERATE] - (RIGHT SHOULDER)
*TOGGLE VIEW [TO CONTROL CONFIG #2] - (LEFT SHOULDER)


-- SELECT (ATTACK) --
*SPEACIAL [GRAPLE BEAM/X-RAY] - (DIRECTIONAL UP)
*WEAPON [CANNON/HAND/LEG] - (DIRECTIONAL RIGHT)
*MISSILE [REGULAR/SUPER] - (DIRECTIONAL LEFT)
*BOMB [POWER BOMB/SPIDERBALL] - (DIRECTIONAL DOWN)


-- VIEW (NOT HOLDING "AIM") --
*1ST PERSON - (C - UP)
*SPIN CAM COUNTERWISE [HOLD TO SPIN IN A 360 CONTINUOUS ANGLE] - (C - RIGHT)
*SPIN CAM CLOCKWISE [HOLD TO SPIN IN A 360 CONTINUOUS ANGLE] - (C - LEFT)
*ZOOM CAM IN & OUT [ONCE FOR "IN" & TWICE FOR "OUT"] - (C - DOWN)


-- VIEW (HOLDING "AIM") --
*AIM CANNON UP [IN STANCE] - (C - UP)
*AIM CANNON RIGHT [IN STANCE] - (C - RIGHT)
*AIM CANNON LEFT [IN STANCE] - (C - LEFT)
*AIM CANNON DOWN [IN STANCE] - (C - DOWN)


-- OTHER --
*START MENU - (START)

-------------------------------

(CONTROL CONFIGURATION #2 - FIXED)

NOTES: With camera "staying" behind Samus at all times...

-- MOVEMENT (NOT HOLDING "AIM") --
*RUN FORWARD - (ANALOG UP)
*SWING RIGHT [IN STANCE] - (ANALOG RIGHT)
*SWING LEFT [IN STANCE] - (ANALOG LEFT)
*RUN BACKWARD - (ANALOG DOWN)


-- MOVEMENT (HOLDING "AIM") --
*AIM CANNON UP [IN STANCE] - (ANALOG UP)
*AIM CANNON RIGHT [IN STANCE] - (ANALOG RIGHT)
*AIM CANNON LEFT [IN STANCE] - (ANALOG LEFT)
*AIM CANNON DOWN [IN STANCE] - (ANALOG DOWN)


-- ACTION --
*ATTACK/BOMB [HOLD FOR CHARGE - EXPECT IN BALL FORM] - (B)
*JUMP/BOUNCE [TWICE FOR SPIN - EXPECT IN BALL FORM] - (A)
*KNEEL [HOLD FOR KNEELING] & [TWICE FOR BALL] & [THIRD FOR RETURN] - (Z)


*AIM [HOLD TO OPERATE] - (RIGHT SHOULDER)
*TOGGLE VIEW [TO CONTROL CONFIG #1] - (LEFT SHOULDER)


-- SELECT (ATTACK) --
*SPEACIAL [GRAPLE BEAM/X-RAY] - (DIRECTIONAL UP)
*WEAPON [CANNON/HAND/LEG] - (DIRECTIONAL RIGHT)
*MISSILE [REGULAR/SUPER] - (DIRECTIONAL LEFT)
*BOMB [POWER BOMB/SPIDERBALL] - (DIRECTIONAL DOWN)


-- VIEW --
*1ST PERSON - (C - UP)
*MOVE CAM RIGHT [HOLD FOR RIGHT SIDE-VIEW] - (C - RIGHT)
*MOVE CAM LEFT [HOLD FOR LEFT SIDE-VIEW] - (C - LEFT)
*ZOOM CAM IN & OUT [ONCE FOR "IN" & TWICE FOR "OUT"] - (C - DOWN)


-- OTHER --
*START MENU - (START)

-------------------------------

Hope this does it for ya - your Metroid clone... I mean Super Turrican... uh... what was it now...? ;)

[ulaoulao]

Turrican, LOL. Lots said thats was a clone of metroid. But I guess Metroid is like a Pink Floyd song, there is just no touching it. You can remake it, but cloning is just not gong to work.


I like the lay out, stick with it for now.

[AnAutisticDog]

If there was a 3d Metroid.......it would suck.

I want a new 2d sidescroller

[ulaoulao]

new?? you know there are hundreds right???


I mean have you seen this??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoKMZXnsF4k

also the MP2d kicks a$$

[AnAutisticDog]

new?? you know there are hundreds right???


I mean have you seen this??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoKMZXnsF4k

also the MP2d kicks a$$

I was talking about new ones on like the gameboy. Can you recommend some good fanmade versions for the PC?
also Ive seen that video before, but I thought it was fake

[ulaoulao]

Can you recommend some good fanmade versions for the PC?
MP2D is good.
some like metroidcubed (though it the same game)
metroid redesigned (very hard)
I wound not say there are many others that are very good.




also Ive seen that video before, but I thought it was fake No its not fake.


Well the topic is about fan games if you cant tell LOL? and since you said

I want a new 2d sidescroller - was just stating there are many..

Also there are lots of Metroid 2d strollers by Nintendo? Granted, more would be cool with me.


Now about this..
If there was a 3d Metroid.......it would suck. - If Nintendo did prime They would have never allowed it to go 1rd person. ...but instead they gave it to rookies at Retro studios and since there team lead said It is not possible to make this game in 3rd view, so we will be forced to use 1st view. and calling his teem rookies (as they were) . it was made in 1st view, oh but since the morphball was 3rd person Nintendo approved it.. " :fuckyou: Gumpei Yokoi would never of stood for this.... Granted MetroidPrme is a great game in all its glory. but Tisk Tisk.. a first person? I'm not even going to go on there... Anyways if a 3rd person metroid game came out by Nintendo it would certainly not suck!! Maroi64 and Zelda both were great games..

Sorry a bit of my childhood was shattered the day prime was release...

[Desert Drifter]

Sorry a bit of my childhood was shattered the day prime was release...

Not the only one feeling the same pal, as Metroid is made to be a "3rd Person" type due to "multi-tasking" as of Turok may get away with... ;)

Prime would of been the best of the series if they just made it 3rd person, but due to being first person, it really turns many away... I even found myself converting to the ball form during most of the game to see better control of the environments. What a waste of environment if you can't fully see and move-about in it...

As for another 2D side-scroller one - hey I would go out and buy it, even Fusion and Zero Mission grabbed my attention.

Nintendo should stick with the script as they originally planned in the past and make their own titles instead of allowing HAL, Retro, and Namco to take over and change it completely around to their personal liking...

[ulaoulao]

Nintendo should stick with the script as they originally planned in the past and make their own titles instead of allowing HAL, Retro, and Namco to take over and change it completely around to their personal liking... - spoken like a true fan..

If they wanted to give pikicha- (excuse me) to another 3rd part house ok, but metroid, com'on thats a classic...